OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Had a knock with my son this afternoon, to see if anything hurt. Did a bit of fh-fh and bh-bh, and then a handicap match. Nothing hurt, which is a good sign.

Yesterday my daughter brought me her bat, and asked my if I would look after it for her, as she's not got a lot of space, and hasn't played for a couple of years. I had a look at it, and lo, it's a pristine Yasaka Sweden Extra! I'm quite a fan of all-round 5-ply blades at the moment, so I chucked a 1.5mm inverted on the FH and OX C&F3 on the BH, and used it when I played with my son. It's a bit quicker than my regular blade, but very nice, and I'd forgotten how nice the C&F3 is for attacking. I've decided I'll use it tonight.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Well, a good match tonight against a much stronger side. Three "new" players, one a student, and two recently moved to the area. All three probably two divisions too low at least. I played with my daughter's bat, which was interesting. BH was pretty effective - more reversal than the usual setup, and better for attacking, but perhaps not as safe. FH was interesting - as expected, good for service and versatile in attack, but not effective for fh blocks. But was fun to play with.

We won 6-4 - I got 3/3, only dropping one set. Our #2 got 2/3, and played very well. Our #3 got 0/3, but had two close 5 set matches, and we won the doubles comfortably, as our #2 and I have played a lot together on Tuesday, and he's a useful player - LH retriever, who reads the game well, so we combine well.

I made sure I stretched and warmed up, at the start of the match and before each match, which made a big difference, and I didn't hold back at all.

Pleased with the match win, which gives us 3/3 so far.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Hello Sir!

I was browsing the Hardbat forums when I saw one of your posts stating you played with SP/LP OX. I've been playing LP BH for a few years now, tried chopping and now blocking close. My FH stinks with both inverted and SP w/sponge so I thought maybe I should have SP OX a go on the FH. Main reason is for a light setup because I have a bad shoulder and carpal tunnel. Another reason is that hardbat players seem to fare well enough against sponge players at the low/medium level. I'm older, only play 3-5 hrs week, and will never get coaching so the low/medium level of play is where I'm destined. So, I'm thinking SP OX both sides or SP/LP OX. Some questions for you:

- Are you still playing this setup and if so how is it working out?
- Why don't you use sponge on your FH like most other people?
- If you're still playing OX both sides, why do you prefer to stick with LPs on the BH instead of SP?
- Why did you choose your current equipment vs other available options? For example, less or more control, disturbance, speed, etc? Ex., why DHS 651?
- Are there any videos of you or other people playing SP/LP OX?

Thank you for your time!

Regards,
Joe

Hello Joe!



I also prefer a light setup, and have had occasional issues when playing with heavier setups. You'll certainly find it light.



I agree - there are many hardbat players at top local league level, and also, in the UK, one very highly ranked vet. I don't think playing hardbat is in any way a disadvantage.



No, I haven't played hardbat in competition for about 4 years, but I still have a 2 x OX SP setup that I use for fun.



Well, at the time, I was experimenting. I've always preferred to hit the ball, and at the time I had neither the technique nor the desire to spin the ball. I also struggled with service return. I borrowed a friend's hardbat, and loved how it felt - very immediate with plenty of feedback, and hits were very effective, as were blocks.

I subsequently experimented with sponge, and as I became a better player, started to enjoy it more.



I can't imagine ever not playing with LP. I've put in thousands of hours of training and competition - it's just how I play. I find it creative, and challenging. I have played with hardbat at the top level of local league, and I was not less competitive, and I learned from it, but in my heart I am a LP player.



A long time ago one of the coaches I knew gave me a bunch of SP to try - all DHS, as he was importing DHS rubbers at the time. I tried 652, 651, Sharping, and Dragonow. 651 was the most difficult to play with, and the one which most forced me to play SP shots. Once I mastered it, I also found it was the rubber most people struggled with most.

I've used a load of other SPs, mostly chinese, but also Spectol, and some of the Spinlord ones. I always come back to 651 as I know it best and love how it feels.



I don't know if I have any footage of me playing with that setup, although I don't know what you'd learn - I wasn't a very good player at all back then. Sadly I don't know anyone else who plays this way, although I believe so_devo had a team mate who did?

I would suggest giving it a go - you've got nothing to lose. I used to use Dr Evil, and my current hardbat uses 802. 802 is a bit spinnier, Dr Evil has some slightly anti-spin characteristics. They're both very cheap. Another really excellent one is the Butterfly Orthodox. Whatever is cheaply and easily available.

I used a very fast blade at the time. That gives you a bit of a hand when hitting, and maximum reversal. But I would suggest starting with something allround and getting a feel for it. One of the 5 ply Swedish blades, like the one I used today, and then maybe 802 on the FH and 755 on the BH?

Expect to spend a few weeks working out how to play your strokes, and missing a lot, but give it a go. It'll be fun. And keep me posted.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Joe - one thing to add: one reason why I stopped using OX SP on my FH was quite how hard I hard to work to generate pace, or to pressure opponents. I found that it was physically quite tough. That would be one consideration now I see you've mentioned a bad shoulder. However, you can just learn to place the ball and roll and block and chop, and you don't need to knock the spots off the ball. Good luck.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

LC,

Thanks much for the info. So, on your FH do you still use 651 or another SP, but with sponge, or have you gone to inverted? What thickness do you prefer?

Yes, I still use 651 as my main weapon, but I'm still slightly in two minds - there are advantages and disadvantages of each, but on balance I slightly prefer SP on my FH. Because I'm not taking TT very seriously any more - ie there aren't ratings points, prize money, and I'm not playing in any prestigious leagues, I feel quite at liberty to chop and change. I would summarise it as follows:

Thin, spinny inverted (1.0-1.5), with soft sponge, is excellent for serving, pushing, chopping and flat hitting. However for attacking against a defender (or more specifically a defender who can counter an slow/spinny open-up), where I need to spin up and then attack the next ball, I prefer SP, as my opening attack is much more pressuring, and when containing on my FH (I don't fish on the FH, so my main defence if I don't have time or space to chop is to block) SP is *much* better for blocks or punch blocks. Similarly, and twiddle and BH block with SP is much more effective. What SP lacks is the ability to inject spin into the rally, which leaves me vulnerable against some players. A twiddle and push with SP is much less effective than with inverted, and FH chops with SP is much harder to get the trajectory right and generate much spin, whereas thin inverted I can hack the ball and absolutely load it with spin. Also it's much harder to generate heavy spin on serve with SP. So it's a trade-off.

My observation is that if I'm playing weaker players, the inverted is a better bet - they're unlikely to be able to hard-counter my slower openup, and are more vulnerable to a spinny serve. Against a stronger player, serve is less of a weapon, I'm more likely to face players who can strongly counter a slow/spinny open-up, and I'm more likely to need to contain attacks with blocks.

In terms of thickness for SP, I've used 1,8, 2.0 and 2.2 - I think I am using 2.0 at the moment, but I don't feel a huge difference. 1.8 has a bit more "effect" and 2.2 is the most threatening and best for continuous attack against defenders, and 2.0 is a good compromise.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Went to Tuesday TT. For a bit of fun, I replace the 1.5mm soft rubber for a sheet of H3 on the same YSE blade. Very interesting. Quite a bit more spin-sensitive, which can be good for service return and touch shots. Very good for serve, and FH attacking was excellent. FH Blocks were much faster. Not great for FH chops. BH attack was good, but I didn't like BH blocks. The main problem for me is the setup feels much faster, but I got used to it, and generally felt like I played well. Slight back niggle half way through, just when holding ready position, but a bit of stretching fixed it. Again, didn't stretch or warm up before, as it's just a social thing... so need to be a bit mindful of that.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I've played a couple of handicap matches against my son today - he's not a bad player - good enough that with a 6-0 head start, I have to play properly to win. That would make him about the standard of some of the players in the current division. He reads spin and returns serve well, so I can't just serve him off, and he has some good attacking shots, so it's worthwhile practice.

I've stuck with the H3 / CF3 / YSE combo, and I'm starting to really like it. It's a still a bit lively for me... maybe I'm just used to a slower blade, but I love how predictable the H3 is - and it's great for serve and touch, and my attacking shots are pretty good. I don't think it has any drawbacks over the thin rubber, and with a bit of practice I'm getting better at FH chops with it. I might keep this as a backup combo.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Nearly 2 weeks off - got some sort of flu thing that made me feel very tired and weak, and then had a bye week. Went and trained with some old chums last night. Good players from my senior british league team, and people who I've been on the national tournament circuit with. The strongest player hovers around top 150 in vetts rankings, and is our (vetts) county #1. Very good session, with plenty of competitive matches. I played pretty well, given I hadn't played at all for a while. There were 8 of us altogether, and I'd probably have been ranked 5/8. I didn't drop any sets against 7/8 and was about 50/50 with #4 and #6 people. Played well against the stronger players, getting close in a few, and taking a game off the top player.

The top 5 players are all LP players! 6,7,8, all double inverted

Low league match tonight - must make sure I stretch and warm up properly, and aim to go out and dominate. Then a tougher match on Thursday against some decent players.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Comfortable wins today, without dropping a set.

I decided to try the YSE with 651 on - so 651 / C&F3, just to see how it felt.

Very good, on balance. The blade is a bit quicker than the defplay, and I already like the C&F3 on this blade. Could be a keeper!

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Cloud and Fog is a little-talked-about rubber, but I find it to be quite good. Has a better quality feel to it than the Daweii 388D-1 that I normally use, although it doesn't really suit my play as well. Currently, I am using 2 £6 rubbers. Doing well. Really don't miss spending huge amounts.

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Other setups:
SDC Custom Blade/Butterfly Dignics 80/Butterfly Glayzer
BTY Viscaria/Tibhar K3/Tibhar K3

Absolutely - very happy with either 755 or C&F3 which are cheap as chips, even Dornenglanz isn't expensive. And I've not found a need to dabble with the fancy new short pips - 651 or 802 does fine for me, and for inverted PF4 or generic Hurricane is perfectly good enough, or 999 if I want something thinner.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Good tuesday afternoon session - strong players today, both in singles and doubles. I was blowing hot and cold... lots of very good play, but some shoddy play too - inconsistent on openups, but more good than bad. The lighting was weird though - I was wearing different glasses, and I was getting a huge amount of reflection on the insides of my glasses from the lights above and behind me.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Well, an interesting and enjoyable match in the premier tonight. Before the match we were third, and we were playing the team in second. Their team was DP, NL, PG. DP is the strongest - and one of the best players in the league. I beat him for the first time last season, so he was doubtless out for revenge. NL is nearly as strong, but I've never beaten him - clash of styles, and/or I need better tactics. PG I've not lost to for a long time.

I played NL first. I played *ok*, and he did get a lot of luck, but if I'm honest I was never really in the match - he won 3-1, and I didn't really have any answers. I also made a lot of unforced errors - FH wasn't quite right, and little defensive touches and blocks just missing and not qute controlled.

I played DP second, and never really got going. Not going to lie, he had a lot of luck too, but I won't make excuses - I didn't play well, and he won 3-0. Same story - I was missing shots I shouldn't miss, and just not quite in control.

So for the third match.... I decide to stop using the YSE/651/CF3 and go back to the old faithful DDS/651/DG. Glad I did - straight away a lot more control. What I lacked in FH penetration and BH nastiness I amply made up in better control, and fewer mistakes. I won 3-0, comfortably.

The overall match was tightly balanced - all three of us are very similar in level, so you can't really say there's a 1,2,3. JC got off to a flyer, winning his first two, but I lost 2 in a row, and CC played badly to lose to PG. He started off badly against NL, and went 2-0 down, but pulled hiimself together and won 3-2, and then proceeded to play really well to beat DP 3-0. That left us 5-3 up with JC's match to go, and the doubles. JC didn't play very well, going down 3-1 to NL.

It was all on the doubles, and JC and I played... we made a good combination, and won 3-1, for a 6-4 win on the night, and we move into second place.

Lesson learned for me - the tried and trusted setup is more reliable, and while I can get away with messing about in the lower leagues, and in practice, when the pressure is on, I should be going to control and consistency.

Overall a good night, and delighted with the team win, and my contribution.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!