OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Well, I've decided to stick with the Triple Spin Chop on my FH. My control with it is really excellent, and I can hit with it nicely too. For me it's almost like the perfect blend between SP and Inverted - I can get huge spin on serves, and it's great for service return; it's a dream for FH chopping; It's superb for flat hitting; and my opening topspin is inconveniently slow and spinny for many players. The two (related) downsides are that I need a lot of energy and arm speed on open ups against push/chop, which is hard work, and because my BH action is much more about control and placement, it does feel a little slow. These can be fixed with practice, so on balance I feel like it's a good (and unexpected) move.

I'm also going to stick with Dtecs on my BH. I think I wasn't ready to use it before, but now I see no disadvantages, and find it better for pretty much everything, compared to Hellfire.

Funny old world... I had no intention of changing anything, but random circumstances gave me some interesting insights.

Training tonight.... I've had an injured toe... which meant training on Saturday was tough... but it's much better today - hopefully I can move properly.

_________________
Donic Li Ping Kitex | Wanted: Thin, Slow, Soft, Inverted | Dtecs 0.5

a guy in his 70s beat one of our clubs top players tonight.he was using dtecs ox on a tibhar defence plus.
he plays div 1 and is as awkward as hell.
L.C do u like the dtecs on the tibhar blade

I've not used that combination for a very long time... if ever. My general view on the defence plus is that it's very slow for chopping and blocking, so is great at slowing the ball down, but does require quite a lot of effort to keep the chop long enough, and doesn't have a lot of reversal.

The Dtecs on my Barwell Fleet, or on my friend's T11 has a lot of reversal when blocking close to the table, and is very nice for chopping away from the table - I can keep it long and low without too much difficulty.

_________________
Donic Li Ping Kitex | Wanted: Thin, Slow, Soft, Inverted | Dtecs 0.5

Went to the strongest club in the area last night. Mon and Fri are good nights here. Some of the team from the Isle of Wight, who recently came 5th in the "Island Games" were visiting - mens #2 and womens #1. I spent about 30 mins chopping and otherwise defending for the woman - was good practice for both of us.

Then trained with my friend ES again. Bit of warm up, then I chopped for him for a while - he's very good against chop, and varies spin, and reads spin deception well, so is an excellent test for my defence.

Played some practice matches - I won one, and got to 9 a couple of times... he won about 4. He's still to tricky and clever for me. However I no-longer struggle against his serves, and he's a very good server. I'm noticing that I'm reading serves more effectively, and being less passive in my returns. My own serves still need a lot of work.

Finished off by playing with an old rival and sometime team mate JD. He's a very very consistent player - tight serves, heavy pushes, occasional hits, and is an excellent blocker. I've never beaten him - the clash of styles works in his favour: he doesn't attack me, so I can't defend. If I attack him, I play to his strengths, because he loves blocking and countering. Practiced for a bit, then played a best of 5, which I won 3-2 - cat and mouse. Just tried to place the ball cleverly, without too much pace, and varying the spin... and managed to coax enough mistakes to win - should have been 3-1, but I was delighted with 3-2, and I didn't feel like I was in danger of losing, so that's a good milestone.

Was also asked to play for the club in the league next season, either in the premier or the 1st division. If I'm around, that might not be a bad idea - the standard is high, and there are many people I've not played in this league.

Going to train this afternoon with some of my SBL team mates.

_________________
Donic Li Ping Kitex | Wanted: Thin, Slow, Soft, Inverted | Dtecs 0.5

LC, did you say you were looking for a SBL player? If so I know someone who might be interested as they were going to enter a team but it fell through. Similar standard to me. I will concentrate on VBL.

I note you are now often London based.... practice and facilities available if it fits in....

Sent from my Redmi 5 Plus using Tapatalk

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Could definitely use another player... our #1 can't play the first match. My coach is our #2 but he's unlikely to be able to play many, and he's very out of practice. Probably can't promise they'd play every match, but if that's ok, please do mention it. This is the Championship team, btw.

Are you going to the Sycamore Ratings? I'd be up for that.

_________________
Donic Li Ping Kitex | Wanted: Thin, Slow, Soft, Inverted | Dtecs 0.5

What's the team name? I think the Championship would be a little too strong....

Sent from my Redmi 5 Plus using Tapatalk

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Grrr... a huge blunder! I had 2 x red dtecs in the stores... but I didn't check their dimensions, because I was sure they'd fit! So I ripped off the old red tsp and the black dtecs to clean the blade ready to mount a brand new black tsp (which I bought at 33% discount!), only to discover that neither of my red dtecs are big enough! One is much too small, and one is, well, too small. Given that I'm training this afternoon, that means I need to stick the Pogo on! ... which I've now done.

It also means I potentially need to buy a new red dtecs (expensive) or two red tsps (wasting the black one), or decide to use pogo instead! Grr!

For today I'll use the pogo...

_________________
Donic Li Ping Kitex | Wanted: Thin, Slow, Soft, Inverted | Dtecs 0.5

The team formerly known as Portsmouth... now Portsea Island. We have a national C team too ...

_________________
Donic Li Ping Kitex | Wanted: Thin, Slow, Soft, Inverted | Dtecs 0.5

Have discussed and championship would be too strong for my friend...and me for that matter!

If there were a Nat C space free that would work so if you end up short let us know.

Sent from my Redmi 5 Plus using Tapatalk

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

The round of unexpected and unintended equipment experimentation ended in a most surprising way. Given the equipment I had available in lieu of my regular setup, I'd pretty much decided to change from hellfire to dtecs. Had no thoughts of changing my blade - been perfectly happy with my Barwell Fleets. I had been getting on very well with the triple spin chop, other than struggling against push, and getting tired with having to work so hard, it being so slow.

Finally got a chance to pick up my regular kit. Swapped the Hellfire for the Dtecs, but kept the T05, pending getting a 2nd sheet of TSP. At next training session, again, I was really struggling against heavy push, and we were doing fast/slow drills, with my coach blocking. We did this for about ten mins, and he said: look, I have to be honest, but I just think this isn't working for you. You have great control, but I'm just not feeling that threatened, and you're having to work really really hard here. Would you mind just trying your T05 setup again? I had it with me, and tried it. Of course first few shots were massively too long, but once I got used to it, it came back under control. However it just wasn't feeling right - there was something that felt off... the blade felt rattly, and my shots lacked some assurance. I was making a lot of errors, which I put down needing to adjust to going back to the Tenergy, but it wasn't working well. Went back to the TSP, and immediately could see I really was having to work hard, and was getting tired. Then my coach said: look... this is just for a data point, but let's swap: I want to see how your setup feels, and you use mine, and we'll do the same exercise.

We swapped... I didn't miss a shot. Maybe 'other persons setup' syndrome. We swapped back. Mistakes came back. We spent the next couple of hours devising exercises which covered every single shot I play - did one with my setup and one with his. Even in areas where I had felt the tenergy excelled - pushing, short touch, blocking... I preferred his. FH chopping was the only area where I preferred the Tenergy. BH close to the table was a little different, as he has 0.5mm sponge, but I got used to it quickly. And when I went back and chopped, after a few shots I got the hang of it, and liked it just as much, if not more, and he felt I was more resilient and a bit more deceptive with the little bit of sponge.

This was not what I wanted. I don't like variables and I don't like change. But I figured - what the hell. I have a month before the season starts, some warmup tournaments, plenty of time to train, and I couldn't deny the fact that his setup just worked better for me. So... I slept on it for a few days, and decided I'd throw caution to the wind, and bought an identical setup. It arrived on Friday and I trained on Saturday....

Saturday I didn't make any effort to compare - the old kit is up for sale. Impressions were as before - everything very good indeed, no regrets.

Went to my original old club last night... can you believe it's been 5 yrs since I first walked in the door?! Played some old rivals which litter the pages of this log:

- BD -- old timer, left hander, illegal serves. Won the first 2 comfortably. Lost the third badly... but he just played a blinder. Didn't at any point feel like I was in danger. He was someone I was always afraid of playing... but I don't feel like that now. He has some good shots, but I have more. I'd beat him in a real match.
- CB -- hardbat retriever. Never beaten him before, and he's been playing brilliantly this summer season - unbeaten. Here my fitness and patience paid off. Lots of careful placement, and controlled topspins, and rare hits... I just played sensible, consistant TT and won the first two. Was 10-4 up in the third, and experimented with hitting more, but made mistakes, and allowed him back in and lost 12-10. Wouldn't have done that if it managed. He said afterwards that's the first match he's lost against anyone this summer.
- RH -- my old training partner and team mate. Used to beat me comfortably. Won the closed tournament competition for all players below the top flight. I won 3-0. Tight games, but I defended well, and played carefully.
- CC -- CB's team mate. Experienced counterhitter/blocker. Another top 2nd tier player. Won the first two... tactics: didn't attack much... gave him shots to attack, and chopped, and pushed and blocked. Third was closer, and he pulled out some good shots to come back from 10-7 to win 12-10.

So - unbeaten on the night against some legends of my development. In context these are all 80-100% div 2 players... RH is a 25% div 1 player (we don't have a premier). Of course I should be beating these people, but they're still tough players. Just good to see that I've developed to the stage that these guys who once seemed like giants are now just a day at the office.

It's also psychological - I just don't think I doubt that I can beat them. The next tier up - the strongest local players - I've not beaten them enough (or at all) -- so they have a psychological upper hand. Some of them are my british league team mates, and some will be my british league opponents. It's this that is the next barrier. And again... it's psychological. In pure percentage terms, I regularly beat some people with the same sort of averages, just because I've beaten them once and then again, and they didn't play with me from the beginning. Others have seen me since I started playing, and in their mind they're just never going to lose, and in my mind they're the demigods of the local scene. I have the game to beat them, and once I do, I expect I won't lose much again... but that's the next step.

So: heavy few weeks of traing - fitness and table. SBL starts in just under a month. Equipment is nailed down, everything else is for sale and will be gone within a week (it'll all go on ebay with no reserve), and we shall see what next season brings.

And your reward for getting this far - my new setup:

- Donic Li Ping Kitex (an)
- Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo (max)
- Tibhar Grass DtecS (0.5)

_________________
Donic Li Ping Kitex | Wanted: Thin, Slow, Soft, Inverted | Dtecs 0.5

Went along to social play for a warmup on Tuesday - played RW (former county player) -- he always gives me a good game. Won the first comfortably. Lost the second 12-10... but the floor was very very slippery and I nearly fell over twice, and it really knocked my concentration. In the third I was really tentative and lost something like 11-6. Played old rival JA, and won 3-0, then RA, who has been working really really hard on his game. Won the first comfortably. Lost the second 12-10 (pattern?!) and came back from 10-4 down in the third to win 12-10. Then played another old rival TE. He played absolutely out of his skin - two level above usual. I won the first, and lost the second closely, and then in the third lost about 11-8 or so - he just didn't miss a thing, and found some tactics that worked well for him. Superb performance. He said afterwards he hadn't played that well for several years, and put it down to just having had nearly 4 weeks rest in a nice climate!

Then had training... was tough. My coach is forcing me to open up with topspin against push on the third ball, regardless - so we're doing drills such as:

- Short serve (fh pendulum) -> push into my bh -> topspin into his bh -> block into my fh -> topspin down the line to his bh -> chop to my middle -> topspin to his fh -> block to my middle -> free

and variations with the push into my fh and into my middle.

Secondly working on my fh attack - so rather than just a regular placement / control shot, one with more power and spin. I still have a tendency to hit these rather than spin them, and when I spin them I tend to play more as if I'm playing against push, and start low and finish high. Lots of work on this: key thinking: 1) Fast Legs 2) Early Bounce 3) Close Face 4) Spin forwards

Annoyingly my upper back / side has been niggly, so I went to see a sports therapist, who did a bunch of work, and gave me some stretches to work on... argh I need to do them this evening!

Went along to old club again tonight... and a wonderful thing happened. I might have said the other day... it's almost exactly five years since I first went into the club... and I met and played with DM - who spent a tremendous amount of time with me and has given me great support over the years. He's just decided to change his FH rubber to SP, and asked if I could give him some advice... I spent about 30 mins showing him a number of things, and giving him some drills to do, and then blocking for him. He really came on well. At the end he expressed how much he appreciated me helping him, and smiled, and said it felt like pay back for all the time he helped me at the start of my journey. It felt so lovely to have given back to him.

RA was there, and we played a match. I wasn't playing well - made a lot of mistakes - and he was playing very well. He used to be a very passive retriever / pusher... but now has become much more aggressive. He has good serves, and hits well on FH and BH, reads spin well, and still has his retriever skills. He's very very tough to play, and is definitely top division standard now. I managed to pull out a 3-2 win, coming back from 2-1 down to win 12-10 in the fifth.

Then I played with RH again (lower echelons of top division). He was also playing very well - he blows hot and cold. At his best he is very dangerous. I lost 3-2, having made too many mistakes, but he did play very well.

Finally played JC - another legend. He's another bottom half of top division player.... I won 2-1.... and some of our rallies were great - real modern defence.... chopping. moving in and out, fishing, and then suddenly turning into attack.

All my TT inventory is now for sale... the Barwell Fleets are sold, two of the Dtecs are sold, and the rest is on ebay. I've kept my Dr Evil red and black, and picked up a DONIC "Ovtcharov Soft Carbon V1" for peanuts, so I still have a hardbat, for fun and feel.

_________________
Donic Li Ping Kitex | Wanted: Thin, Slow, Soft, Inverted | Dtecs 0.5

Did a training camp this weekend - so 6 hrs Saturday and 6 hrs Sunday, and then another 3 hours last night. I wouldn't say I had a 'breakthrough', but I think a few things have cemented, and moved from "I know this in my head" to "I can feel when it's happening". The next step is "I do this without thinking or noticing".

So what's the thing... or things?

Well. It's a connected set of things to do with how I play my FH topspin, especially against push/chop, but also against a blocked/topspin ball.

In essence, I need to work much harder on using my legs and core in both shots, concentrating on weight transfer, coordinated with arm/wrist. I already do arm/wrist fairly well, but actually I tend to rely on it too much, which is inefficient and tiring, and lacks power.

I have a couple of flaws in my game which make it hard for me to do this, partly, I suspect, from having played with SP for so long:

1) I tend to stand rather close to the table, not giving myself much room to play a full shot -- I need to give myself more room
2) On my fh I tend to stand very square, making it hard to transfer weight -- I need to have my right leg back a bit so I can rotate more, and feel transfer from right to left
3) I tend not to extend/drop my arm sufficiently in my fh stroke -- I need to drop my bat down to my knee, or reach behind
4) I tend not to brush the ball, rather "lift/push/roll", which gets the ball over the net, but isn't pressuring enough -- I need to feel (and hear) a brush rather than a thick contact

Key thoughts which have finally settled in for me:

- Recover half a step back be prepared to wait a fraction longer
- Get my leg out of the way for FH shots
- Feel a decisive core twist - one way to think of this is as throwing the right hip forward to result in the left shoulder turning, and another is using the left shoulder to pull the body round, with the result that the right hip comes round... maybe a combination of these things is needed, but either way, I know the feeling I'm looking for

One other thing that stuck in my head as an aide memoire is the idea that were I to have a tattoo on the underside of my forearm, when attacking push, the tattoo is facing the opponent, and when countering topspin or float, it's facing the floor. Of course this is over-simplified, but it helps me to avoid the mistake I often make of spinning up against a push, and then hitting the block off the table because I'm using the same shot shape.

Training again this afternoon - really going to try to keep this in mind - make space, get my leg out of the way, decisive core twist, tattoo forwards vs push, downwards vs topspin/float.

Played a couple of practice matches against one of the top players in the area last night - plays in the next division up from me in the national competition (Senior British League). Lost 3-0, but got to 9 and 7. Main issue was some of my serves weren't tight enough, and my recovery from service return wasn't quick enough - his third ball attack into my fh was too fast and powerful for me to get over and fish/block/counter. Needs work.

Other area of work - on Fri and Sat I practiced with two people, both of whom had very aggressively spinny serves, which I struggled to return. This is increasingly unusual, as usually I don't have this issue, but both of them seemed to generate extraordinary levels of spin, which I didn't adjust to very quickly.

_________________
Donic Li Ping Kitex | Wanted: Thin, Slow, Soft, Inverted | Dtecs 0.5

I suggest you give ABS 2 Soft a try . How well do you cope with LP / SP opponents? how well do you do in the no spin rallies against LP ?

Is ABS2 a flanti? I did try Megablock for a short while, a few years ago, but got absolutely murdered in my first competitive match against some very average opponents. I went straight back to LP and had a solid season thereafter! I think flanti is super interesting, but I think it would take me a long time to get to the level of proficiency I have with LP, so I'm not sure it'd be worth the switch.

I have no problem against LP users who defend. LP users who hit with LP are a bit trickier, but they're fairly uncommon, and most of the ones I've met don't move well or twiddle, so they're less dangerous than they could be. I tend to avoid no-spin rallies against LP players by twiddling or moving, and using inverted to generate spin, or maybe bumping the first LP shot and spinning the second. I like playing against LP players

I don't struggle against sp bh players - either defenders or hitters/blockers.

I think SP fh hitters are my least favourite players to face - I find it hard to block and/or chop on the fh against them.

_________________
Donic Li Ping Kitex | Wanted: Thin, Slow, Soft, Inverted | Dtecs 0.5