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 Post subject: Path from LP to MP to SP
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2023, 01:05 
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Joined: 27 Oct 2010, 16:38
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Location: Moscow, Russia
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
I want to shortly describe my own experience with equipment changes. My height is around 182 cm and fortunately I do not suffer from overweight. I have relatively good reaction, decent at my level footwork but bad body coordination and bad vision.

I played and enjoyed casual table tennis before but never had any regular sport activity before. I started to train in table tennis regularly at my mid 30's 13 years ago.
My first own custom racket was LKT Instinct and FH LKT Rapid Speed 1.8. BH search for something playable was longer but finally I settled in Butterfly SuperAnti 1.5.
I gained minimal consistency with SuperAnti and first tactics related with BH short game summoned.

Once I have participated in a hardbat tournament (with shared cheap premade bats) and discovered the superior feel and control of ox pimples comparing to anti.
I started to play Dornenglanz ox when it just appeared on the market and played with it uninterrupted for about 10 years.

I changed a hand of blades and FH rubbers. My FH was simple and underdeveloped: literally only performing services and flat counter/smash 2-3 times per 11-point game. It was enough. During years I tried 802-40 and a couple of Spinlord SPs on my FH but discovered that:
1) Service with SP is not much worse. Even more variable and thus more effective.
2) SP do not bring much for smash. Consistency comparing to inverted is worse as timing window is shorter.
3) Ball feel is worse.
I finally abandon SP FH research for myself.

Over years my BH developed faster as I played most balls with it. I wanted something more aggressive for my BH. My primary goal was search of better BH attack opening.

I tried Dr. Neubauer MPs with 1.3mm sponge. Experience was shocking. Much faster. Great lose of control as my primary tactics was to force short game with angles. Tournament performance rating dropped for a whole class. After a few months I returned to Dornenglanz ox and soon have got my life peak record rating. Despite of poor practical results after a year I tried Dr. Neubauer KO Pro 1.3 again. The same sharp drop of performance again. My style and technique did not change much. But when I have retried Dornenglanz ox after a half year of KO I discovered that micro-adjustments happened and I could not play ox pips anymore without serious retraining process.

I enjoyed playing KO more. KO have more possibilities and less dependent on incoming balls speed and spin. So my BH became more proactive. So I burned all bridges and played with KO Pro 1.5 during last several years. While I think I improved a lot as a more allround and technically complete player both at FH and BH my tournament performance did not restored and stagnated at the level of half class lower comparing to ox peak. I wanted more.

I decided to reserve antispin BH equipment possibility as the very last backup. I have not tried short pips on my backhand but fearlessly decided to play dual inverted setup. I have bad experience trying Tackiness Chop (too high throw) and Vega Intro (too much catapult) at my FH before so I wanted something different. I have bought the cheapest European offensive rubber in local store: Tibhar Tornado+ 1.8 (but it looks more like 2.0).

To my astonishment I gained control of Tornado very soon. Tornado 1.8 is actually slower then KO Pro 1.5. The greatest problem was passive block. The ball blocked extremely high during the first training session. BH flick was also too high but still ends positively at the very end of the table. After a few playing sessions most height misjudgments disappeared. Pushing, chop block, various pimple wild punching tricks, even service return with pimple habits was ok from the very beginning. I am sure that my tournament level is lower now but such radical shift happened as painless as possible. I even transferred some pimples's destructive effects of spinless punches. The Tornado rubber while definitely moderately spiny has topsheet properties similar to SuperAnti from my memories. And finally my inverted BH block is more stable, tighter and more aggressive after just a couple of weeks (5-7 playing sessions).


Last edited by Omut on 20 Jun 2023, 07:09, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 06:27 
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
Yinhe Jupiter III Asia 39 vs PALIO AK47 Red.

Hardness is similar. Jupiter feels slower, more (too much for me) dwell, sticky feel. My technique does not permit to generate more power from Jupiter. So I think Jupiter is slower in all cases. AK47 Red is low throw rubbers, but Jupiter 3 is even lower.

Jupiter is much, much spinier. It is one of the spiniest rubbers I ever tried. (I do no play with Butterfly rubbers, so will not comment how close it is to Tenergy or Dignics).
AK47 Red is just a king for flat hits. Jupiter is not terrible, but IMO Tibhar MX-S is better for flat game.

AK47 Red has mild catapult of hard tensor rubber. Jupiter 3 not much if any.

Rubbers are very different. So Jupiter 3 does not make my favorite AK47 Red outdated.


Last edited by Omut on 14 Feb 2023, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 23:34 
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
My personal view about disruptive pips-out rubbers. Yes, pimples works by themselves. Modern offensive inverted rubbers also generate easy speed and spin by themselves. So there is a tie.

IMO the main disadvantage of pimples that they limit your style variability possibilities. As general style strategy and as counter tactics against current opponent. Particularly pimples limit your maximum power you can afford from this side. Flashy kill shots are pleasure. Much more then effect to the disappointed opponent at least for me.

My natural style is counter-hitter. I try to minimize spin effects either with or without pimples. But I do not want to slowdown the pace of the game.


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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2023, 23:49 
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Interesting. Thank you for sharing your journey.

_________________
"Success is on the same road as failure; success is just a little farther down the road."

Donic Defplay Senso | Yasaka Mark V 2.0 | SL Dornenglanz OX

Donic Defplay Senso | Butterfly Sriver | Testing


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PostPosted: 15 Feb 2023, 02:37 
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Blade: SDC Viscaria
FH: Rakza Z EH max
BH: ABS 3 Spinlab Pink Sponge
Nice to read about your journey.

I'm on a bit of a journey myself, so it's nice to get some insights and inspiration from simeone else

Verstuurd vanaf mijn moto g22 met Tapatalk


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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2023, 02:00 
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Joined: 06 Nov 2009, 04:40
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Blade: 729 HS Champion carbon
FH: Razka X max, black
BH: SavigaV LP 1.0 red/green
Thank you for sharing Omut. Your posts are always thoughtful and well reasoned. I always appreciate your comments. Look forward to more.

Tell us about your blade. I am not familiar with that model.


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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2023, 19:25 
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Joined: 27 Oct 2010, 16:38
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
I have reviewed my DHS blade in dedicated forum section.

Some table tennis brands are in my personal black list now. I will not explain more.


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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2023, 20:30 
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Blade: GRUBBA
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BH: BEST ANTI
Interesting thread mate.
I agree about throw angles of rubbers etc.
If you stuck with the Dornenglanz ox instead of changing your b/h rubber would your ranking be higher than it is now ?
Did you just get bored and want a change.


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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2023, 22:50 
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
peterpong wrote:
Interesting thread mate.
I agree about throw angles of rubbers etc.
If you stuck with the Dornenglanz ox instead of changing your b/h rubber would your ranking be higher than it is now ?
Did you just get bored and want a change.

My rating peak might be a random fortune because out of Covid period. I have got a good shape relative to my rivals. I decided to drop Dornenglanz at the very peak so nobody knew how consistent this level was. Long pips and later Dr. Neubauer medium pips (I modestly think they followed MP after me) become more and more common in my region so surprise effect is non existent anymore. But there are several LPs players who still progress over me in current environment so pips out style is not hopeless.

There were many small reasons for a radical change. My playmates still do not understand. This blog is one of them. ;)


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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2023, 04:49 
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Joined: 27 Oct 2010, 16:38
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
I discovered that my BH is not good enough for AK47 Red. Open rally was pleasure but service receive and opening did not work properly. Will try my old friend KTL Rapid Speed instead.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2023, 06:43 
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
KTL Rapid Speed is not my cup of tea. It was my first rubber 13 years ago. But nowadays there are better alternatives among cheap rubbers.
It is rather heavy (10-11g more then Palio AK47 Red) and much harder then AK47 Red.
I partially solved my problems with service receive, but everything else is worse then AK47 Red. I definitely will not waste time testing MX-S and Aurus Prime I have on my shelf and I have no other inverted rubbers available.

I never played short pips on my BH (KO Pro is closer to long then to short pips) but I decided to test SpinLord Degu 2.0 I already have. While most short pips rubbers are not faster then average inverted rubber, average SP are felt to be 1) more aggressive 2) easier in service receive 3) my LP/MP technique is better with SP then with average inverted.

I am not completely satisfied with very soft sponge of Degu and its control on power strokes but I played much better today. While still not better then with KO Pro but it was my first ever experience.

I will look for short pips with medium hard sponge. Friendship 802 SP and Yinhe Uranus Pro Medium come to my mind so far.


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 Post subject: from inverted to SP
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2023, 21:53 
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
People want to know why I have changed my equipment so frequent and so radically during last months after years of permanence.

My FH is powerful and consistent enough that opponents avoid playing into it. I begin to observe that I become pinned into my BH as weakness.
I felt that I have stuck in my progress with deceptive but passive BH choice of rubbers. BH is my primary and favorite side and I play most intermediate rallies and openings with it.

So I want to you use my BH in more dangerous way. While I tried many times defense is not my way to win more. So I pushed myself into more offense.

I can play pushing and open rallies with inverted BH. But I discovered that for successful inverted attack opening one need to track ball spin carefully. Dealing with spin is not my forte. And the faster the inverted rubber the more spin sensitive it become in general.

Fast short pips are easier in dealing with spin. The earlier and stronger short pimples punch the less they are affected.

Another reason for the need to change rubbers is I have recently switched from Stiga Clipper Wood that while being fast blade is naturally allround and very good for chopping and blocking. DHS 301z is not much faster but has intense offensive character. Defensive strokes are worse in control while offensive ones are rewarding in feel and precision.

The last but not the least reason. Political situation changed availability and my personal desire to accept some table tennis brands.


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2023, 00:12 
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
My fresh insight about blade hardness. It is possible to get used to any blade speed and dwell time. Harder blades are harder to use properly.

Many times I preferred harder feel blade for their superior ball impact feel. Harder blades have better feedback when you hit hard at good position.
But my practical results are better with softer blades because emergency out of position non orthodox returns, instinct blocks, touch shots are better.

In general harder overall blades with thicker top ply needs stronger more powerful and positive stroke to discover blade's full potential. Softer blades can have less max potential but at light and medium power level softer performs better both in consistency and ball quality.

And it is harder to find optimal rubber hardness that fits a harder blade. In may be controversial but softer blades are in fact better for deeper penetration of harder rubbers where not only top but the multiple inner wood plies come into play for additional positive effects like optimal dwell-time and other hard to name properly aspects.

There are some popular blades that are too soft for me. So it may be exist a metric of optimal softness relative to the playing level.


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 Post subject: Path from LP to MP to SP
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2023, 07:08 
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Joined: 27 Oct 2010, 16:38
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Location: Moscow, Russia
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
Today I rediscovered again that control is not winning games. Fast blade and fast rubbers works better for me.

Switched from [ Jupiter 3 / Legend 802 SP ] to [ AK47 Red / Uranus Pro Medium ].


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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2023, 22:21 
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra 7
FH: PALIO AK47 Red
BH: Dr. Neubauer K.O. Pro 1.5
Have tried to return from SP to Dr. Neubauer KO Pro 1.8. Not an easy task!
1) Comparing to SP, the KO is much slower, luck of catapult, but the speed range to work with is much higher: from very slow to medium.
2) Pushing like SP/inverted pops up the ball like in lobbing. You should punch the ball forward with semi-open racket like LP. Was very funny but I readjusted relatively fast.
3) While the rubber is relatively slow and ungrippy driving with SP motion sends the ball straight, high and far. The KO rubber has more dwell, but no grip (less then any LP I have played) It is impossible to create any topspin for arc.
4) I play two types of blocking: slow passive and short, and more active counter. Slow blocking was easy, the rubber can be very slow in controllable manner.
But active blocking was way too wrong. I played KO Pro for several years, but after a half year switch I completely forgot how to perform it. The blocker player glued the funny rubber again but forgot how to block with it!

I will explain why SP rubber dis not improved my tournament games.
1) With KO I had no problems against tricky spiny, unspiny and reverse spiny players. I could almost ignore the spin factor in the game.
2) With KO I could play in very slow gears and "overslow" and "outshort" long pips player.
3) SP was fast and I had hard times to adjust optimal table distance against various players. With KO I had less reasons to leave the table.
4) KO makes cheap points from "unforced" opponents's errors during safe play again.

With SP rubber there is no passive play mode. It is very hard to be active against dark side rubbers. And there are many pips out players (anti is very rare) at the half class below I down shifted. The players I did not noticed with KO but struggle with SP.


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