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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 02:20 
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Dr. Chop-Blogger
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Oh, and had an interesting experience in a match as far as exploiting holes in someone's game, or at least that's what it looked like: playing a lefty attacker, down 1-2 in games. She keeps serving to my FH, so in the 4th game I simply started floating reasonably high dead ball with pips to her deep BH, moving to receive with LP. Won at least 8 next points off the serve outright, if not more, and a match - all of loop attempts went into the net. Now, given that match was meaningless, I'm pretty sure she was basically practicing her response to this return (her serve did not change), but it was quite a dramatic turnaround.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 02:28 
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pgpg wrote:
Oh, and had an interesting experience in a match as far as exploiting holes in someone's game, or at least that's what it looked like: playing a lefty attacker, down 1-2 in games. She keeps serving to my FH, so in the 4th game I simply started floating reasonably high dead ball with pips to her deep BH, moving to receive with LP. Won at least 8 next points off the serve outright, if not more, and a match - all of loop attempts went into the net. Now, given that match was meaningless, I'm pretty sure she was basically practicing her response to this return (her serve did not change), but it was quite a dramatic turnaround.

I see a lot (I think, in fact, most) LP players move and receive serves to their FH with LP on their BH. So I suppose it's kind of a natural tendency to do so for them.
Don't you normally do this?


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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 02:40 
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ziv wrote:
pgpg wrote:
Oh, and had an interesting experience in a match as far as exploiting holes in someone's game, or at least that's what it looked like: playing a lefty attacker, down 1-2 in games. She keeps serving to my FH, so in the 4th game I simply started floating reasonably high dead ball with pips to her deep BH, moving to receive with LP. Won at least 8 next points off the serve outright, if not more, and a match - all of loop attempts went into the net. Now, given that match was meaningless, I'm pretty sure she was basically practicing her response to this return (her serve did not change), but it was quite a dramatic turnaround.

I see a lot (I think, in fact, most) LP players move and receive serves to their FH with LP on their BH. So I suppose it's kind of a natural tendency to do so for them.
Don't you normally do this?


Yes and no - it's a double edged sword, especially against lefties. You can't camp in wide FH corner since it makes you vulnerable against down the line serve, and stepping in to receive everything on FH with LP is not that easy too, especially with leaving table open for 3rd ball. I think you need option with smooth/LP FH receive too, otherwise it's too predictable and can be exploited.

The fun part of the receive I described was that it was not super aggressive, pretty high over the net (NextLevel would be proud, he encouraged me not to go for low shots all the time from the bench last weekend), and yet super effective against this opponent in this match.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 03:07 
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PG,

I just wanted to say I tried your DTecs OX/defplay combo last night and I liked it very much. I'm a little inconsistent on blocking with it, but chopping went very well. Off the table it's a little slower than DG, and softer. Not sure which I like more. I then played with DG on a VKM, and the results were essentially the same...I'm more used to DG of course. The bigger difference was the forehand. VKM had 1.5mm Friendship SuperFX blue sponge, and on the DP I had Victas V>15 which is hella fast.

I think i want to try both DG and DTECS with 3-4 glue sheets like Eric Adam does to see what that's like, because essentially I'm a poor man's version of him...he has a stronger BH attack after twiddling, weaker forehand, lots of chopping. He yells a bit more than me...but just a bit. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 04:38 
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Japsican wrote:
PG,

I just wanted to say I tried your DTecs OX/defplay combo last night and I liked it very much. I'm a little inconsistent on blocking with it, but chopping went very well. Off the table it's a little slower than DG, and softer. Not sure which I like more. I then played with DG on a VKM, and the results were essentially the same...I'm more used to DG of course. The bigger difference was the forehand. VKM had 1.5mm Friendship SuperFX blue sponge, and on the DP I had Victas V>15 which is hella fast.

I think i want to try both DG and DTECS with 3-4 glue sheets like Eric Adam does to see what that's like, because essentially I'm a poor man's version of him...he has a stronger BH attack after twiddling, weaker forehand, lots of chopping. He yells a bit more than me...but just a bit. :lol:


That's how I settled on it before Teams in November - felt like best control on BH close to the table. Few folks on Russian forum thought that it is not that optimal for blocking (they might have a point, something faster may be nastier with reversal), and coach in Portugal felt Defplay was too hard for FH (not sure about that - his suggestion Andro Fibercomp feels strange to me, so it's in storage for now). Stuck with it till the end of 2019, so have to make do.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 04:50 
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The biggest thing I have learned from reading pgpg's blog is that if I stick with one setup for a while, my rating will eventually shoot up if i can make it to another tournament

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 04:59 
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kaesees wrote:
The biggest thing I have learned from reading pgpg's blog is that if I stick with one setup for a while, my rating will eventually shoot up if i can make it to another tournament


You are at that stage now where large increases in rating are quite reasonable (especially given your recent posts about club play), just need to play more events. It can get tougher after that, I was stuck almost at the same ~1750 level for about 3 years and my equipment was reasonably stable then (meaning I used the same setup for around 4 months or so).

That's how long I've been with my current one up to this point - at least 10 more months to go ;).

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 05:59 
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pgpg wrote:
That's how I settled on it before Teams in November - felt like best control on BH close to the table. Few folks on Russian forum thought that it is not that optimal for blocking (they might have a point, something faster may be nastier with reversal), and coach in Portugal felt Defplay was too hard for FH (not sure about that - his suggestion Andro Fibercomp feels strange to me, so it's in storage for now). Stuck with it till the end of 2019, so have to make do.

Huh? :^) The russian forum said dtecs were not optimal for blocking at the table? That's exactly what they are meant for and excel at! Where the hell did they get that from?

That's like saying P-1R is bad for chopping and Hurricane isn't good for looping.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2019, 06:31 
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Japsican wrote:
pgpg wrote:
That's how I settled on it before Teams in November - felt like best control on BH close to the table. Few folks on Russian forum thought that it is not that optimal for blocking (they might have a point, something faster may be nastier with reversal), and coach in Portugal felt Defplay was too hard for FH (not sure about that - his suggestion Andro Fibercomp feels strange to me, so it's in storage for now). Stuck with it till the end of 2019, so have to make do.

Huh? :^) The russian forum said dtecs were not optimal for blocking at the table? That's exactly what they are meant for and excel at! Where the hell did they get that from?

That's like saying P-1R is bad for chopping and Hurricane isn't good for looping.


Dtecs on Defplay in particular (with the latter being rather flexy, I guess...). There is a lot of lore in Russian TT-sphere about what rubber goes with what blade and how they synergize. I've learned quite a few new concepts... :lol: Folks here worry about 'throw angle' and 'dwell time', there it's more about blade interacting with sponge, blade vibration and 'whip'. Or something like that - most of it is hard to translate.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 00:31 
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pgpg wrote:
Japsican wrote:
pgpg wrote:
That's how I settled on it before Teams in November - felt like best control on BH close to the table. Few folks on Russian forum thought that it is not that optimal for blocking (they might have a point, something faster may be nastier with reversal), and coach in Portugal felt Defplay was too hard for FH (not sure about that - his suggestion Andro Fibercomp feels strange to me, so it's in storage for now). Stuck with it till the end of 2019, so have to make do.

Huh? :^) The russian forum said dtecs were not optimal for blocking at the table? That's exactly what they are meant for and excel at! Where the hell did they get that from?

That's like saying P-1R is bad for chopping and Hurricane isn't good for looping.


Dtecs on Defplay in particular (with the latter being rather flexy, I guess...). There is a lot of lore in Russian TT-sphere about what rubber goes with what blade and how they synergize. I've learned quite a few new concepts... :lol: Folks here worry about 'throw angle' and 'dwell time', there it's more about blade interacting with sponge, blade vibration and 'whip'. Or something like that - most of it is hard to translate.


Wow.. fascinating that there are such differences. Could be language, you’d know best. I wonder that despite the nuance in language if in the end it all means the same things with regard to how equipment plays.

As for what they said about the defplay with the Dtecs, I think this forum has come to the same conclusion. Not because of the Dtecs, but any blocking pips on a defplay. It’s not regarded as a good push blocking blade. YOU’VE just adjusted to it, (the flex, the dwell, the throw) and traditional stiff blades feel weird to you. I feel the same way when using push blocker blades like the fiber comp or Dr. N balsa blades. I think anyone with a mixed game will experience this because inevitably their equipment favors one style (chopping vs blocking) more than the other. I think that’s why I pushed he JSH experiment so hard, it’s widely regarded as a chopping blade, which is also good for push blocking due to the hardness and stiffness of the blade. I just could not get there feel for it. The defplay feels like home, and the VKM is the best compromise for me. Goldilocks dilemma on all of it!

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 01:01 
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Japsican wrote:
...
As for what they said about the defplay with the Dtecs, I think this forum has come to the same conclusion. Not because of the Dtecs, but any blocking pips on a defplay. It’s not regarded as a good push blocking blade. YOU’VE just adjusted to it, (the flex, the dwell, the throw) and traditional stiff blades feel weird to you. I feel the same way when using push blocker blades like the fiber comp or Dr. N balsa blades. I think anyone with a mixed game will experience this because inevitably their equipment favors one style (chopping vs blocking) more than the other. I think that’s why I pushed he JSH experiment so hard, it’s widely regarded as a chopping blade, which is also good for push blocking due to the hardness and stiffness of the blade. I just could not get there feel for it. The defplay feels like home, and the VKM is the best compromise for me. Goldilocks dilemma on all of it!


I definitely noticed that fast blades (Yinhe T10+) produce very different balls when blocking with OX. Might revisit it for fun, if only to try what chops/FH look like.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 03:40 
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I have something interesting to report. I have been enthralled with the idea of Eric Adam’s use of 3 glue sheets for his OX Dtecs. I have decided to experiment putting other materials behind the Dtecs. I decided to take an old reflectoid cover, the cardboard packaging, and use that as a “sponge.”

Yes, I know technically this is illegal.

It’s exactly the feeling I’m looking for. It takes the edge off the Dtecs just so, giving it more cushion than OX, while keeping a lot of the same advantages as ox. I might even try a thicker cardboard, card stock, or 2 sheets of the reflectoid cardboard.

I am going to still try the 3 glue sheet method, but I can’t see it being better than this.

I’ll post a tutorial on this in experimental section, I have a post asking about this exact thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2019, 03:46 
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This also makes me wonder about veneer, and applying softer woods as a “sponge”. Or maybe think sponge between a sheet of veneer and the original blade face.

Or 3 glue sheets under the veneer.

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2019, 04:35 
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If it weren't such a PIA to do so, putting it on 0.5mm of really dead sponge would probably do something similar, no?

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 Post subject: Re: Zen of chopping
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2019, 11:12 
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kaesees wrote:
If it weren't such a PIA to do so, putting it on 0.5mm of really dead sponge would probably do something similar, no?

PIA?

I think that if you can find a really thin (0.1-0.2mm) very hard/very dead sponge, perhaps. The issue was finding it. All sponge, even dead sponge has catapult and dwell. The cardboard is harder than very hard sponge, and more ox-like. It’s kind of in-between the 2. I think I still want to try the 3 glue sheets method tho.

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