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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2021, 22:56 
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dunc wrote:
Ndragon wrote:
Interestingly enough my consultant advised against any kind of knee support while playing.

Wow, really? Did he explain why?

My knee locked up after training on Monday, and I still can't straighten it |( I had a patella support on, and I'm starting to wonder if it's hurting rather than helping.


He said because it will not strengthen the necessary muscles needed to support my knee enough.

Oh gosh I hope you're gonna be alright. That sounds so bad. I would be panicking already lol

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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2021, 23:05 
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It was pretty horrendous on Tuesday, but I can walk OK today. I'm not sure how exactly, but I can always tell when there's a serious problem with my knee or when it's just something that needs to be "walked off" or "rested". This is definitely the latter.

I'm definitely going to resume weightlifting and focus on my lower half, but I need to buy a squat rack.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2021, 23:26 
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dunc wrote:
It was pretty horrendous on Tuesday, but I can walk OK today. I'm not sure how exactly, but I can always tell when there's a serious problem with my knee or when it's just something that needs to be "walked off" or "rested". This is definitely the latter.

I'm definitely going to resume weightlifting and focus on my lower half, but I need to buy a squat rack.


Do you think your playing style makes it worse?

Also you could probably get away with a couple of heavy dumbbells or a kettle bell no?

But with knee injuries with the meniscus etc it's the impact that causes issues which is one of the reasons my consultant told me a knee support will not make any difference anyway. And he told me even if I'm fully recovered I still need to stay away from high impact sports etc as the risk of injury is higher and it will just be a slow deterioration over time without knowing till its too late.

I am pretty sure if I showed him a video of me playing he would tell me off lol. Coz when I first started playing he encouraged it as I explained how I would be playing (not too much movement all over the table and distance etc). But over time I got more confident as I didn't feel pain, until now I'm really feeling it

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2021, 00:04 
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Ndragon wrote:
Do you think your playing style makes it worse?

Yeah, I'm sure it does, but I just don't enjoy TT long-term if I'm not chopping. I've tried a few styles - close to the table OX LP blocking, SP penhold hitter, two-wing looper, etc. I like them all as a change from "the norm", but it's modern defence that keeps me playing TT. If I can't play like this, I'll probably just stop playing.

Ndragon wrote:
Also you could probably get away with a couple of heavy dumbbells or a kettle bell no?

Possibly. I was doing a weightlifting program before I got COVID, in the house. Problem I found is that my legs must be quite strong because I reckon I could squat 10-20kg more than I'm capable of lifting on to my shoulders. E.g. I was squatting 50kg, barely able to get it on my back, but had no problem squatting 3 sets of 10 reps at that weight.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2021, 00:35 
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dunc wrote:
Ndragon wrote:
Do you think your playing style makes it worse?

Yeah, I'm sure it does, but I just don't enjoy TT long-term if I'm not chopping. I've tried a few styles - close to the table OX LP blocking, SP penhold hitter, two-wing looper, etc. I like them all as a change from "the norm", but it's modern defence that keeps me playing TT. If I can't play like this, I'll probably just stop playing.


Oooof. That hit me hard ;(
It's almost how I feel tbh, but I'll be depressed if I cannot play TT and be active since I cannot Rollerblade anymore and I cannot play my PC games due to hyper toddler lol


I wouldn't worry about how much weight btw, most important thing is going to or near failure with reps. And actually it's better for our joints and back etc to do a lighter load. Can also do lunges first, then squats to finish off. You can even do bodyweight (can make it hard) and progress to pistol squats. That will also build balance and coordination as well as using muscles as a whole for functionality

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2021, 22:04 
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Ok well after coming to terms with it all and having a bit of a shite day yesterday, I've got all my ideas written down and can finally set new goals etc


First and foremost I will stick to my bat now and just play zone 1 eg within 1m. If I can find enjoyment and success then lovely. Otherwise there would be a few things I need to try for at least a month each to get a real feel for.

1. I was thinking to use my Donic WSC with Mark Vs to firstly see if I can just get on with that. But more importantly see my natural strokes and tendencies etc which would help me see if my next idea would be better.

2. SPs both sides and basically play like Jean Paul Montanus. It looks really chill on the knees and looks like it would be fun too but who knows.

3. LPs with sponge (probably thick like 1.5) attacking, similar to Yang Xiaoxin, Pedro Gallo, Galia Dvorak

4. Could lead to 1 side SPs and 1 side inverted or LPs or all kinds of funky combinations

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2021, 22:38 
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Ndragon wrote:
1. I was thinking to use my Donic WSC with Mark Vs to firstly see if I can just get on with that. But more importantly see my natural strokes and tendencies etc which would help me see if my next idea would be better.

By this idea, do you mean playing double inverted? You can definitely play a control style close to the table with double inverted, but you'll probably find that you get significantly worse before you get better.

Ndragon wrote:
2. SPs both sides and basically play like Jean Paul Montanus. It looks really chill on the knees and looks like it would be fun too but who knows.

Yeah, this could work. You can chop a bit, attack a bit, basically be a jack of all trades. There's an O60 vet who plays in our local league with this combination, and he's really good. Worth noting though, his style is way more mobile than you're aiming to be.

Ndragon wrote:
3. LPs with sponge (probably thick like 1.5) attacking, similar to Yang Xiaoxin, Pedro Gallo, Galia Dvorak

Fine to attack with LPs, but you need to be able to block, chop-block or chop too. You won't be able to attack every ball that comes to your backhand. Personally I find this style quite effective, but boring to play.

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2021, 23:04 
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dunc wrote:
Ndragon wrote:
1. I was thinking to use my Donic WSC with Mark Vs to firstly see if I can just get on with that. But more importantly see my natural strokes and tendencies etc which would help me see if my next idea would be better.

By this idea, do you mean playing double inverted? You can definitely play a control style close to the table with double inverted, but you'll probably find that you get significantly worse before you get better.

Ndragon wrote:
2. SPs both sides and basically play like Jean Paul Montanus. It looks really chill on the knees and looks like it would be fun too but who knows.

Yeah, this could work. You can chop a bit, attack a bit, basically be a jack of all trades. There's an O60 vet who plays in our local league with this combination, and he's really good. Worth noting though, his style is way more mobile than you're aiming to be.

Ndragon wrote:
3. LPs with sponge (probably thick like 1.5) attacking, similar to Yang Xiaoxin, Pedro Gallo, Galia Dvorak

Fine to attack with LPs, but you need to be able to block, chop-block or chop too. You won't be able to attack every ball that comes to your backhand. Personally I find this style quite effective, but boring to play.



1. Yes. I find when I try to play close though I tend to do short snappy counter drive type shots. Which is what made me think of SPs. Also I would dedicate at least 1 month to this to get a real feel for it.

2. I would probably try to completely mimic Jean Paul's game tbh, although I might be a little more mobile naturally but not like the guy you're talking about.

3. I've actually tried this a bit already with FL2 1.1 on Stiga ALL Classic and was very surprised with the outcome. The only time I chop blocked was the slower loops. Everything else I could block, drive and even loop. I'm just guessing here but I feel on a faster blade or/and more sponge it would be even better.

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2021, 05:38 
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So today was interesting to say the least. I learned a few things already.

Luckily I was able to play with a new member to the club, a University student from France who has played for 12-14 years and played for her county. Good solid player! Much better than me that's for sure. Her footwork was so good!
She hasn't had much experience with LPs OX so she was very happy to get some and so 1 of the drills was literally just her playing anything and everything to my BH and I play anywhere.

We also played last 30mins of match play.

It took me a while to stop moving away from the table automatically, even when I was thinking about it I still went too far to touch the table. So I made it a point before every point to touch the table and say in my head "STAY" :lol: good boy

What I learnt....well with the LPs I definitely found it more of a weakness than a strength, when she blast shots I just couldn't control it and keep it on table. Any slightly weak serve return got blasted and by weak sometimes all I mean is her being able to get her FH on it, or not enough wrist. At the same time it can be a weapon as I can get some nasty short balls and angles and often setup nicely to hit with FH but in the future twiddle and BH loop.

My FH surprised me, as expected however I hardly ever actually loop. It's fast snappy counter hit/drive kinda shots. Flat or slight top spins. Or quick blocks with angles. I mentioned as a laugh that all my loops in training drills but in the match I counter hit instead but she commented that it is very effective and it wins me the point most of the time anyway so it's good. I'll take that compliment :party:

I'm not so sure the Mark V bat would be better for my FH now but I'm sure I'll be giving it a go sooner than expected if I keep feeling this way about the LPs on BH.

Also I've put in an order since a friend is ordering from Hong Kong. 2x 729 804-20 mystery 3. I'll probably put them on the Stiga clipper.

Wednesday should be good as I've got 3hrs with Anatol again, he played really well last week and destroyed me in match play. Had me running around too. Let's see how this week goes with my new style, already expecting it to be worse though :rofl:

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2021, 22:53 
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I've been thinking about this since last night lol.
The one thing that keeps popping in my head is this video right here where after the 1st set it's basically a massacre and I cannot help but feel as soon as I have to play Anatol in a good mood, or Semi or any of the people better than them this will be me over and over ;(




Bare in mind this guy is really really good with his LPs. The only guy that gives me confidence is Abbasi Amirreza but he has amazing footwork I cannot imitate.....

I am | | close to just using my Mark V bat on Wednesday training....but I also cannot stop thinking that I like this blade NSD that maybe I can put spare inverted rubber on the BH instead, or could put a FL2 1.1mm :^) hmm

I am very much leaning towards SPs on BH or just double inverted though tbh but the SPs I wouldn't be testing for at least another 2-3 weeks. Also leaning towards sticking with NSD

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2021, 23:30 
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I think it might be worth stopping to consider some context.

Semi plays D3 of Veteran's British League. Looking at some of the players there, I think that's roughly equivalent to the division I played in SBL (possibly a touch worse), but he had an ~80% win ratio.

He's clearly a good player. He's a very experienced match player.

It doesn't matter what style you played right now, you would find Semi challenging. I suspect if you play double inverted, you'll find him even more difficult - it's a style he'll be very used to playing.

You can get to Semi's level, and above, using almost any style of play. Some styles will be quicker/easier for you but I don't think any style will cause you to plateau until quite a few levels above Semi. The double SP hitter in our league for example has a number of O50 and O60 titles in the UK VETTS. Steve Horton (LP classical defender) and Ivan Lewis (Inv/SP retriever) have both won O50s titles.

What's quite obvious to me though ("do as I say, not as I do" -> I might be changing to SPs soon :lol: . Same gameplan/style though in my defence) is that you need to pick a style and work on it. Primarily, you have to accept losses. Instead of just thinking it's a style issue though, try to understand what you could do to improve against the opponent who beat you.

More often that not, the answer is: become more consistent with your strokes. I haven't changed too much in my game, but my strokes have become more reliable, and as a result I've seen my performance increase.

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2021, 23:47 
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dunc wrote:
I think it might be worth stopping to consider some context.

Semi plays D3 of Veteran's British League. Looking at some of the players there, I think that's roughly equivalent to the division I played in SBL (possibly a touch worse), but he had an ~80% win ratio.

He's clearly a good player. He's a very experienced match player.

It doesn't matter what style you played right now, you would find Semi challenging. I suspect if you play double inverted, you'll find him even more difficult - it's a style he'll be very used to playing.

You can get to Semi's level, and above, using almost any style of play. Some styles will be quicker/easier for you but I don't think any style will cause you to plateau until quite a few levels above Semi. The double SP hitter in our league for example has a number of O50 and O60 titles in the UK VETTS. Steve Horton (LP classical defender) and Ivan Lewis (Inv/SP retriever) have both won O50s titles.

What's quite obvious to me though ("do as I say, not as I do" -> I might be changing to SPs soon :lol: . Same gameplan/style though in my defence) is that you need to pick a style and work on it. Primarily, you have to accept losses. Instead of just thinking it's a style issue though, try to understand what you could do to improve against the opponent who beat you.

More often that not, the answer is: become more consistent with your strokes. I haven't changed too much in my game, but my strokes have become more reliable, and as a result I've seen my performance increase.


Words of wisdom!

In all honesty I'm not too fussed about taking a lot of Ls for a while, the problem is enjoying the style I'm playing that I'm still happy having fun while losing. And I felt a little defenseless yesterday when she got a good loop in to my BH whereas I blocked or countered some of those with my FH. Also twiddled couple of times and hit it with inverted too.

I know I need to give it more time, just at the moment I feel uncomfortable and unnatural when vs topspin. On the contrary though I enjoy it vs backspin lol

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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2021, 23:58 
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Ndragon wrote:


And I felt a little defenseless yesterday when she got a good loop in to my BH whereas I blocked or countered some of those with my FH.
...


I find that I'm much more successful chopping loops to my BH, as opposed to blocking them at the table (may be it will change with slower setup). Which implies dropping back a few seconds before your opponent sends one there. Of course, if your intent is to play a close to the table game with LP, then it does not apply - it's probably all about practicing blocks off the bounce then.

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PostPosted: 05 Oct 2021, 01:28 
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pgpg wrote:
Ndragon wrote:


And I felt a little defenseless yesterday when she got a good loop in to my BH whereas I blocked or countered some of those with my FH.
...


I find that I'm much more successful chopping loops to my BH, as opposed to blocking them at the table (may be it will change with slower setup). Which implies dropping back a few seconds before your opponent sends one there. Of course, if your intent is to play a close to the table game with LP, then it does not apply - it's probably all about practicing blocks off the bounce then.


Yeah a week ago I have 0 problem there since I love to chop that too and you would never catch me close enough to touch the table, very rare and specific occasions. Even when I played 10 years ago and double inverted, never catch me touching the table.

Maybe it's just practice.....although when I came back to TT some months back and was playing close to table the only time I could control a solid loop more than I couldn't was with the Fanti. And no I'm not looking to go down that route again.

Maybe someone can point me in the direction of some videos of a good lvl of play where they control such loops at least more than 50% of the time so I can see

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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2021, 04:32 
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Well this morning was about to be black and white until I learnt that actually Manika Batra and Amirreza Abbasi technique with their chop blocks/blocks are either better at the table or just work better for me.

I played half the session with my usual bat, then half the session with my Donic WSC and Mark Vs 1.8fh 2.0bh.

And it took me up until now to realise why I don't enjoy the long pimples at the table. While I win about the same amount of points I generally don't like it that if the ball has been looped or blocked to my BH that I have to chop block and the rally continues whereas I can punch/loop instead and either win or gain advantage. The last 30mins I was starting to get comfortable with the Mark Vs too and was such a different vibe, I definitely preferred it.

I am tempted to continue and actually learn that Batra technique but I think it's just a better idea to go down the other route....which then leads me onto basically 2 ideas only (possibly a bonus one :lol:)

1. Double inverted with Mark Vs. Have a choice of 2 blades. Donic Waldner Senso Carbon or Stiga Clipper Wood. Could potentially get something different for BH but I would want something not too sensitive to spin and not high throw angle

2. Mark V FH. And on the BH SPs. Also choice of 2 blades but probably best to use the Clipper from everything I've read about it. The SPs would likely be Nittaku Moristo SP

3...... 8) Double SPs. But probably something slightly more spin orientated on FH like Rakza PO

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Last edited by Ndragon on 07 Oct 2021, 07:08, edited 1 time in total.

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