OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I'm glad someone especially a fellow penholder loves reading these.

I agree 100% with what you said. The robot speed in the video was on the slow side because I just wanted to show my play, but I've had some issues in the past (feet/arm soreness) with fast speeds. I will need to experiment again and find the right speed, maybe not practicing it for too long.

I have suspected myself that I serve over the table. I will move back next time. The ball toss is definitely not high enough. I'm going to practice FH serves again in the next week...maybe shovel serve like Xu Xin, since it's quite common among penholders. I haven't had much luck with it last time but I just have to endure a little longer until I can use it in matches.

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USATT 1502.
Long pips pushblocker, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694

Today I played doubles at work after a long (for me) hiatus. I didn't play very well and lost both matches. I was teamed up with the best player who played well and against our usual foes, so there's no excuse. Not terrible play, but could be better.

I still do not have a lot of confidence in my FH given recent experiences and that I haven't ramped up my practice. It wasn't as bad as Saturday, and was looking up in the 2nd match, but overall I lacked the looping feel to put lowish balls over the net. RPB was again stellar...I didn't miss much and almost all instant winners. But I only use it when I'm out of position as RPB is the natural and only solution there.

As soon as I stood at my doubles spot I felt like I had to rely on my FH and TPB. Ah the pressure...I shall start RPBing more when it's not doubles tho.
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Last night, I realized the right way to loop based on recent feedback.

I need to start with my arm relaxed and relatively straight, and end with it in the salute position around my head.

The natural way to do this is whip the arm, but also CHANGE THE ANGLE between upper arm and forearm. The latter I read on some forums before, but Wu Jingping (Ma Lin/Wang Hao's coach) stressed it in a video.

Without the CHANGE THE ANGLE part, I either end up with straight arm the whole way, or bent arm the whole way like in my last videos. Straight arm provides good power and I think is still applicable for farther balls (I think Ma Lin/RSM do this a lot), but won't work if not enough space esp for amateurs. Bent arm lacks power and is a bit rigid.

But if I change the angle naturally as I whip, I can loop balls of different distances.

Anyway, took some practice videos:



I think I did better with the whipping around the middle of the vid. The sound of the ball is different if I whip it right. Overall I had more power than last time.

I tried to stay as low and use as much twisting as I can, it still looks weaker than I thought.

I don't think my loops have strong spin, we'll see if practice changes that.




This is against pretty strong backspin from robot. I felt like I was able to use some legs here but it wasn't evident in the video.

I felt like I was hitting it very hard, but it didn't look as fast in the vid. On the other hand, the net clearance and overall curvature seemed better than from my angle.

I'm not sure if my loops are "spin loops" or "loop drives" - same in TV commentary, sometimes they say Xu Xin "spin loops" too much and needs to loop drive more like Ma Lin. To me, it seems like if the trajectory is flatter it's a loop drive.

I attempted some slow spin loops at the end, which looked like I used more arm..

A few potential issues I noticed:
* I am contacting the ball more to my side rather than the front. Chinese coaches talk about "moving forward" using body power to loop a lot. I have done this in the past but not consistently. Need to start doing this again

* I'm using some waist power which is a good start, but not much legs yet. Not likely to really look like a pro but worth moving in that direction.

* The ball is a bit too close to my body. Need more room for max power.

Lastly, I'm starting to think I may need replace my FH rubber (still Skyline 2). It's been over a year old and noticed some slippage (or just poor technique lately, replace anyway...)

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USATT 1502.
Long pips pushblocker, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694

1) At this point you should be contacting the ball beside you, not in front of you. You will naturally start contacting in front of you especially when you start hitting much much harder. Try to contact when it's about a handspan forward of your body parallel to the table

2) I have a feeling you are pivoting off the back foot and stepping the front foot backwards (it's hard to tell). Move your weight forwards onto your front foot as you contact the ball. If you need to step your front foot prior to contact to help weight shift. Don't bother moving your back foot through right now, just focus on shifting weight. As per #1, when you start hitting harder your foot will start to follow through.

3) Yes you are contacting a bit too close to your body. Watch the difference between your #1 and #2 video - #2 you are contacting maybe a handspan further away from your body. Contacting further away will also give you space to change direction too.

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Chasse Patate

Yeah. You're a good coach. I noticed I pivot around my right foot too and experimented with what you said. I had a bad knee then.

I was basically half assing knowingly until i want to win more.

This sounds all a plan coming together. Fixing the stroke will maybe help with that knee

_________________
USATT 1502.
Long pips pushblocker, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694

I started playing with an old setup (Sense 7.6/Red Super Anti/Black H3N) again trying to minimize footwork, because my right knee has become a (minor) chronic issue. Except the Anti is now on my FH.

So I stand in the middle close-to-table playing a kinda all-around style. Mainly using the Anti on both wings to block/drive/drop shot etc. Sometimes I step around a bit and hit one, and RPB loop/push. I serve with RPB.

Hasn't been hard to get used to the Anti so far.

Things I like:
* Don't have to worry about spin anymore when I return serves
* People I don't play a lot with probably can't get used to Anti
* More relaxed style overall, may improve my control

Issues:
* Spin reversal doesn't look strong like LP (which I have experience playing against but not with). When I block or chop-block drives from TPB, the backspin generated isn't enough to even deter weaker players once they are familiar. It probably has stronger backspin against good loops, but I don't play with those players often. This is the #1 issue right now, as redirecting blocks isn't my strong suit.

* Hits on FH side against non-backspin balls are not easy. I'm able to increase consistency at the expense of power, which makes the shot easier to return. This is probably not a bad thing if it forces me to work on placement.

Another thing I noticed is I don't win by as much against weaker/same level players, but probably have a better chance against players I've had some trouble with, if I can neutralize their attack/spin advantage. Only time can tell though.

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USATT 1502.
Long pips pushblocker, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694

I'm going to try long pips (C8 Ox) soon. See updates in viewtopic.php?f=17&t=32890

Brief update on today:
Played 3 doubles matches with the strong player as partner again. Lost the first one quickly as he made a lot of errors and I wasn't being very aggressive. Second one (a repeat) went the distance but able to win with us performing normally. Third one again a close win against familiar foes from last time. Wasn't very nervous with the anti, and did well in deciding games.


Today I was a bit down at work and had some stray thoughts, so I'm going to take a new approach and talk about some things I don't usually touch on.

In (Chinese?) TT jargon there are 3 crucial elements:
1. Power (speed of the ball)
2. Spin
3. Quickness

I would consider myself decent in power/quickness but not spin. Recurring themes are:
* I can serve well in practice, but in matches I lose my touch or become a bit afraid of missing
* Strong incoming spin always makes me a bit uneasy, or feel like my hands are tied at worst
* Repeating drills can build muscle memory to handle topspin or backspin, but NOT both at same time
* I hate receiving good serves more than any other aspect.

TTEdge helps to some degree, but I'm not particularly enjoying it either... SO, I really think the move to anti/LP is the right one. Give them back whatever spin they put on, or just kill it I know it's not that simple, but it definitely makes handling spin somewhat easier, and countless folks have taken this road.

As amateurs, ultimately we do what we enjoy most. How good our strokes look etc. probably should not be very high on the list. Health is paramount... this is something I sort of figured out when I was out with the bad knee. I'll no longer try to be a looper to win, though I will still practice from time to time.

And about defensive styles, I'm finally starting to see how it can be super effective until quite a bit above my level. A lot of amateurs do miss a lot, needless to say. With a little (or a lot) of help from our funky rubbers and tactics, we can make them very uncomfortable and hand us games.

Back to the earlier crucial elements, some others less mentioned ones are:
4. Placement - not really my strong suit, for some reason I either try to be safe, or just slam/loop hard at my favorite angle; some improvement with anti tho (drop shots etc.)
5. Accuracy/consistency - pretty decent against normal opponents but over aggression can harm this
6. Aggressiveness - pretty good
7. Adaptability - not sure, maybe average. I usually do play better at deciding games when I turn up my level and think some about tactics.
8. Psych - I lose a lot of game 2's, must be a combo of lapse of energy and lack of belief/changing tactics. Some minor choking at pivotal points but not more than the typical guy.

Looking at the overall list, the one thing that stands out a bit at odds with defensive styles is aggressiveness. Like today at doubles, if I'm too passive we lose. I believe this is why I'm going to be a pushblocker looking to hit at the opportune moments, with LP or anti.

Another thing is that drives definitely don't feel as sexy as loops (does anyone object? ), so I'm hoping the LP will add more character in terms of its weirdness. I have a feeling it may not be easy at the beginning tho, as I'll need to make the pips fall a certain way. But it's worth trying even if I end up going back to anti

_________________
USATT 1502.
Long pips pushblocker, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694

First official tournament discussed in viewtopic.php?f=22&t=33021

Since then I have not played as much. Went to the club one time, was slightly off that day and lost to a guy that I thought I could beat. (Credit to him tho...he has GREAT serves that even LP 'eats'.)

Been practicing FH hits more and found that I can do 'loops' (just the movement) that have similar effects to my old 'amateur' loops - definitely no spin and worse consistency, but spin has never been my strong suit.

Haven't practiced as much due to other commitments. Played today at work...won 2 singles matches without losing a game. But.... one was a comeback down 6-10 and 2 were 11-9. Lost a close one in doubles, didn't do great hitting winners, but partner missed a lot of my setups in second game.

* In singles the guys don't have much trouble in the first game, unlike at the tourney. Three words: LACK OF SPIN
* My twiddling is a little rusty so I serve RPB. Been pretty decent. The lighter paddle and looser grip have helped my serves.
* Calm style, has helped a lot with nerves. It's almost a bit 'passive aggressive'
* Did hit some FH and BH winners

LP has absolutely decreased the technicality and excitement, but I enjoy winning

_________________
USATT 1502.
Long pips pushblocker, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694

Back with another post after over 3 months..

There has been quite a big improvement in my LP play. I've been unbeaten in singles and only dropped two games against a guy I beat 3-1 twice. I also started playing again in the church group...where I rarely lose in doubles now.

The areas I've gotten better in are:
* FH - I have a nice mixture of hits and chops (or kinda like sideswipes) now. I chop against both top/back spin, and it's quite a reliable shot. It also allows me to deal with difficult balls like spinny 'loops', or chop from afar against kill shots, giving me extra points against strong opponents.

My hitting feel has improved with time, and only hitting when it's a high percentage shot. (As of late, a lot of slow-ish, medium height balls are actually good to hit since my aim is not bad.) Opponents are rarely able to return it due to the lack of topspin.

* TPB against backspin. Just practice and using it in matches. A killer in doubles against spinny backspin serves from innocent opponents

* Placement - previously my weak point, but now I'm able to pretty much ignore the spin of many incoming balls and focus on placement. With LP, we can place the ball in many spots (both drop short or long), and with penhold TPB over the table, there's a type of very low, slight backspin balls with a bit of wrist, which just seems unreturnable for most guys.

* Serves - placement has improved, certainly a bit more control now from a more flexible wrist and generally trickier mindset.

* RPB - added a flat 'block-hit' kinda like how the pros block loops. It's sometimes easier to execute against either short or semi-high balls than loops


I enjoy LP a lot now! It's a thinking man's game and totally skill-based. I can literally play this style standing against lesser opponents. However, I can also move back and chop if I feel like it.

It eliminates almost all unforced errors, because each stroke looks so easy to unsuspecting eyes. Attacks are very deadly however. Against many untrained people, this style is very lethal, and I can see why so many Chinese folks play LP now.

The weak spots:
* No-spin balls. I told one of my opponents to give me no-spin balls, and he immediately led 5-2 that game. (Some of it is probably psychological on my part.) It's easy for it to go over the baseline. But I just started RPBing most of his easy balls away... so RPB is quite integral in this style.

Against the guy I beat 3-1, he gave me some of these balls too that were pretty short sometimes (he doesn't miss easily). I just kinda moved him around (but adding power would make it go out easily), eventually he misjudged some spin that I've no clue about, and gave me the point, or I kill it

* Good loops. Unfortunately, haven't been able to play anyone in this category. It'd be interesting to see if my close-table blocks/chops can give them trouble, or if I still can't keep it low

Until next time... any feedback welcome

_________________
USATT 1502.
Long pips pushblocker, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694