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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2020, 22:58 
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Joo Too
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skilless_slapper wrote:
But every time I come on here and read of the chopping exploits, or watch YT videos -- it makes me want to swap back and chop, chop chop! :devil: The close to the table blocking has its own kind of fun, high-risk scenarios... you're right at the table having to block and angle a big hit coming at you! During multi-shot rallies, where they loop and I block to a side. They come back with a BH loop drive and I ping it to their body, forcing a panic short forehand swat return. Then I give it a little wack off to the corner where they can't reach. Those quick 3-5 hit rallies of BAM BAM BAM, coming out on top with a block they can't reach! Though overall I don't feel as much joy from the blocking, as I do the chopping.


Why not experiment in executing both styles, depending on your opponent? It means a heck more work, but boy, if it works, a great pay off.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2020, 15:51 
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Lorre wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:
But every time I come on here and read of the chopping exploits, or watch YT videos -- it makes me want to swap back and chop, chop chop! :devil: The close to the table blocking has its own kind of fun, high-risk scenarios... you're right at the table having to block and angle a big hit coming at you! During multi-shot rallies, where they loop and I block to a side. They come back with a BH loop drive and I ping it to their body, forcing a panic short forehand swat return. Then I give it a little wack off to the corner where they can't reach. Those quick 3-5 hit rallies of BAM BAM BAM, coming out on top with a block they can't reach! Though overall I don't feel as much joy from the blocking, as I do the chopping.


Why not experiment in executing both styles, depending on your opponent? It means a heck more work, but boy, if it works, a great pay off.


I end up doing a little bit of that currently. Only because when I play doubles, none of my positions or attack/defense patterns are adjusted to blocking at the table. Still have no idea how to stay close and not wind up blocking my partner, more than the ball!

Though, even so, way back when I joined the forum... before the playing hiatus, I was always looking for blockers. Matsudaira, Walder, Oh Sang Eun, He Zhi Wen, Zhang Yining etc. just meaning my initial style centered around blocking and liking that game. Problem I had there became that no one would attack, so no blocks could be had... hence, if I'm having to push so much why not just go chop and push and chop off the table as well? Then I can still back spin the ball, even if no one wants to attack. This was met with the boring paddy cake games again... so coming back around full circle, I find myself blocking -- but utilizing a few good attacks to combat the paddy cakers.

End message there is -- I've been whining for a LOT of years :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2020, 18:30 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
I end up doing a little bit of that currently. Only because when I play doubles, none of my positions or attack/defense patterns are adjusted to blocking at the table. Still have no idea how to stay close and not wind up blocking my partner, more than the ball!

Though, even so, way back when I joined the forum... before the playing hiatus, I was always looking for blockers. Matsudaira, Walder, Oh Sang Eun, He Zhi Wen, Zhang Yining etc. just meaning my initial style centered around blocking and liking that game. Problem I had there became that no one would attack, so no blocks could be had... hence, if I'm having to push so much why not just go chop and push and chop off the table as well? Then I can still back spin the ball, even if no one wants to attack. This was met with the boring paddy cake games again... so coming back around full circle, I find myself blocking -- but utilizing a few good attacks to combat the paddy cakers.

End message there is -- I've been whining for a LOT of years :lol: :lol:


:lol: I think if WWIII would be breaking out in the area you're living in it would be conquered fast. There's seems to be an abundance of people too afraid to attack, too incapable to defend, meaning they are also like that in real life. Great cannon meat though! :D

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2020, 21:03 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
That is a nice feeling about the long pips. I don't recall even once, where a loop or smash came at me where my mind thought "OMG CAN I EVEN CHOP THIS BACK!?" due to spin or speed or whatever it might be. Out of position and having to stretch, who knows what. With the OX LP anyway, I always think if I can just TOUCH the ball my return has a pretty good chance of going back on the table. I rarely miss chops that I'm actually able to contact, not contingent on being in a perfect position either.

Whereas with the short pips/inverted you really need everything to be in a good place, otherwise the risk of missing the table or sending back a crap shot go way up. I like that challenge in a sense. You're saying to the opponent -- you're not going to hit through me, so you'd best hit past me or drop short and hope for a pop up to slam by. Now granted, I never did become a great SP chopper on the BH... though to me, I have always felt a vulnerability when using them that I don't experience with LP. But on the same token, there was the ability to pressure them in other ways. My opinion is that those 'other ways' don't outweigh the consistency given from long pips, even if you might have to twiddle now and again. And you're using the 1.5 sponge, so imagine what it feels like to play on EXTREMELY EASY BRAIN DEAD OX LP CHOPPING MODE :rofl:

I think if they ever made a pip to produce that kind of ball... there would be a quick meeting with the ITTF and a new rubber on the BANNED list the following day :lol:

It's funny to me how similar blocking and chopping are, fundamentally. Same way a good attacker will pin a chopper on the pips, since it's fairly predictable for them... a good offensive person will pin an OX LP blocker at the table as well. Hit hard enough to keep you from really getting a chance to attack, but not so hard that they kill themselves. Especially if you have a good FH kill shot. The pips might be "trickier" on some balls, but overall much less lethal than a FH SCREAMER!

But every time I come on here and read of the chopping exploits, or watch YT videos -- it makes me want to swap back and chop, chop chop! :devil: The close to the table blocking has its own kind of fun, high-risk scenarios... you're right at the table having to block and angle a big hit coming at you! During multi-shot rallies, where they loop and I block to a side. They come back with a BH loop drive and I ping it to their body, forcing a panic short forehand swat return. Then I give it a little wack off to the corner where they can't reach. Those quick 3-5 hit rallies of BAM BAM BAM, coming out on top with a block they can't reach! Though overall I don't feel as much joy from the blocking, as I do the chopping.

My favorite part is probably when the other guy is drenched in sweat, breathing hard after the games. And people watching just laugh at me and say "You don't even look like you've even started playing yet!" I definitely favor economy of motion when blocking. Why waste the effort! Which was kind of opposite from the chopping game, since I was required to move in and out at least. Side to side not a ton if I was able to dictate and predict the flow of the rallies.


It's a very difficult one to judge for me personally. Definitely with short pips there's like a point of no return if you end up in certain situations. Requires more luck in those cases to get the ball back, whereas with long pips you can realistically expect to get most balls back no matter the quality coming at you. But those cases are countered by the fact that you're more in control of what happens in other cases when using short pips. Might to a degree depend on the player. My feeling at the moment though is thst I'm possibly benefitting more from the higher percentage chopping with P1r than the varied spin with short pips. As such I won't be trying any short pips again for a while I don't think, unless something changes my mind.

I definitely don't want to sink further into the couch, so I'll stick with 1.5mm sponge under my long pips :).

Sounds like you'll figure out your preferred style, it will just take time. The issue I see with both styles, and surprisingly the blocking style fit you, is thst you say people don't attack your blocks when you're at the table either. Either Lorre is right and you're on some strange area where nobody has a backbone or it's just a matter of yuur block being at a much higher level than your opponent, but your forehand and pushes are not. In which case, they are being smart by not engaging your strength, providing they feel they hsve no chance against it (though if they're like this in practice too then that's bad). In a way its a compliment. But also a spotlight on areas to work on. Sounds like you do have a good forehand but don't use it the way you feel would be most efficient. We've covered this before but I think there really are only two options to either of these styles when playing someone who won't engage. Outlast then or blast them :devil:. You don't hsve to do one or the other all the time. I think there are cases where one is better than the other, to a point.

I asked my dad about Leyland. So I'd have to look back at what he said now but basically it all went to s*** when Barna died. Because Leyland was sold on the blades and when he was alive the quality of the rubber was high. But after he died Dunlop sourced the rubber elsewhere to cut costs (of I've read this wrong I'll come back and change it). A bunch of problems piled on top of each other that basically brought about the death of the rubber. It was THE rubber among all ghr best in the world till the sponge came out but still seemed like it had a market after thst. But it killed itself basically by when it came to it not getting ittf approval and no longer being sold with Barna blades etc. Also the two color rule later on.

Definitely was a unique rubber. Pips so small and on better kept sheets, very soft. Better control when chopping than with long pips (though it may not have the same cushioning) but capable of decent spin variation and obviously attacking. Badly kept sheets are hard and play like crap, which is unfortunately the experience most who've tried it have had. I think with sponge under it, there's a good chance I'd use it over long pips in honesty. Providing it was approved.

Interestingly, my parents and Mary Reisman tried to 'resurrect' the rubber but were denied by the ittf (this was probably 15 years ago or so). They asked fit a reason for the limit, making the rubbers pips too small to be approved. The ittf apparently told them there actually wasn't really a reason. That's quite shocking. You'd think they'd come up with some bs or just say 'that's the rules'. But to actually admit there isn't a reason is pretty insane. It's not like Leyland had weird properties or anything. As straightforward a rubber as there is.

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Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2020, 07:52 
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Lorre wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:
I end up doing a little bit of that currently. Only because when I play doubles, none of my positions or attack/defense patterns are adjusted to blocking at the table. Still have no idea how to stay close and not wind up blocking my partner, more than the ball!

Though, even so, way back when I joined the forum... before the playing hiatus, I was always looking for blockers. Matsudaira, Walder, Oh Sang Eun, He Zhi Wen, Zhang Yining etc. just meaning my initial style centered around blocking and liking that game. Problem I had there became that no one would attack, so no blocks could be had... hence, if I'm having to push so much why not just go chop and push and chop off the table as well? Then I can still back spin the ball, even if no one wants to attack. This was met with the boring paddy cake games again... so coming back around full circle, I find myself blocking -- but utilizing a few good attacks to combat the paddy cakers.

End message there is -- I've been whining for a LOT of years :lol: :lol:


:lol: I think if WWIII would be breaking out in the area you're living in it would be conquered fast. There's seems to be an abundance of people too afraid to attack, too incapable to defend, meaning they are also like that in real life. Great cannon meat though! :D



The cowards!!

Well, actually they've chosen to try and be more aggressive as of late. Since focusing on the FH finishers, I pretty much go with the BH out of laziness or if they suck against pips. Otherwise I go more Weixing style and womp with the FH for a number of points, until they want to avoid it. Then settle back in with the LP - rinse and repeat.

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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2020, 09:22 
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Snowman89 wrote:

It's a very difficult one to judge for me personally. Definitely with short pips there's like a point of no return if you end up in certain situations. Requires more luck in those cases to get the ball back, whereas with long pips you can realistically expect to get most balls back no matter the quality coming at you. But those cases are countered by the fact that you're more in control of what happens in other cases when using short pips. Might to a degree depend on the player. My feeling at the moment though is thst I'm possibly benefitting more from the higher percentage chopping with P1r than the varied spin with short pips. As such I won't be trying any short pips again for a while I don't think, unless something changes my mind.

I definitely don't want to sink further into the couch, so I'll stick with 1.5mm sponge under my long pips :).

Sounds like you'll figure out your preferred style, it will just take time. The issue I see with both styles, and surprisingly the blocking style fit you, is thst you say people don't attack your blocks when you're at the table either. Either Lorre is right and you're on some strange area where nobody has a backbone or it's just a matter of yuur block being at a much higher level than your opponent, but your forehand and pushes are not. In which case, they are being smart by not engaging your strength, providing they feel they hsve no chance against it (though if they're like this in practice too then that's bad). In a way its a compliment. But also a spotlight on areas to work on. Sounds like you do have a good forehand but don't use it the way you feel would be most efficient. We've covered this before but I think there really are only two options to either of these styles when playing someone who won't engage. Outlast then or blast them :devil:. You don't hsve to do one or the other all the time. I think there are cases where one is better than the other, to a point.

I asked my dad about Leyland. So I'd have to look back at what he said now but basically it all went to s*** when Barna died. Because Leyland was sold on the blades and when he was alive the quality of the rubber was high. But after he died Dunlop sourced the rubber elsewhere to cut costs (of I've read this wrong I'll come back and change it). A bunch of problems piled on top of each other that basically brought about the death of the rubber. It was THE rubber among all ghr best in the world till the sponge came out but still seemed like it had a market after thst. But it killed itself basically by when it came to it not getting ittf approval and no longer being sold with Barna blades etc. Also the two color rule later on.

Definitely was a unique rubber. Pips so small and on better kept sheets, very soft. Better control when chopping than with long pips (though it may not have the same cushioning) but capable of decent spin variation and obviously attacking. Badly kept sheets are hard and play like crap, which is unfortunately the experience most who've tried it have had. I think with sponge under it, there's a good chance I'd use it over long pips in honesty. Providing it was approved.

Interestingly, my parents and Mary Reisman tried to 'resurrect' the rubber but were denied by the ittf (this was probably 15 years ago or so). They asked fit a reason for the limit, making the rubbers pips too small to be approved. The ittf apparently told them there actually wasn't really a reason. That's quite shocking. You'd think they'd come up with some bs or just say 'that's the rules'. But to actually admit there isn't a reason is pretty insane. It's not like Leyland had weird properties or anything. As straightforward a rubber as there is.



You're almost better off never even going to long pips, if coming from short/inverted. That reduction in precision, footwork, and everything else is a tough crutch to give up! And looking on, it seems you don't have to be nearly as good to be competitive with long pips - whereas to reach the same level with SP would require better everything. Not to say the LP are "easy" but definitely more suited for making the chopping job easier.

But as usual I'm catching the chop-bug again... tempted to buy a new sheet of dignics 64, slapping that baby on the faster chopping blade with d.tecs OX backhand and giving it a go this weekend. I feel more confident with the attacking now, to where I could comfortably loop-kill every so often to keep them honest. In all honesty it would probably lower my winning rate - but increase the fun rate. I'll just bring both and see what happens. At the very least it gives me a few excuses :lol:

Sounds about right for the ITTF (or any big company for that reason). Just pick and choose, now somebody try to stop me! mindsets.

Without having played it, could be similar to keiler, gipfelstrum, or neubauer killer short pips. All are probably faster than the older leyland. Maybe nittaku pimplemini or militall 2 from tsp. Lots of could be's -- doubtful any matchers.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2020, 01:24 
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skilless_slapper wrote:


You're almost better off never even going to long pips, if coming from short/inverted. That reduction in precision, footwork, and everything else is a tough crutch to give up! And looking on, it seems you don't have to be nearly as good to be competitive with long pips - whereas to reach the same level with SP would require better everything. Not to say the LP are "easy" but definitely more suited for making the chopping job easier.

But as usual I'm catching the chop-bug again... tempted to buy a new sheet of dignics 64, slapping that baby on the faster chopping blade with d.tecs OX backhand and giving it a go this weekend. I feel more confident with the attacking now, to where I could comfortably loop-kill every so often to keep them honest. In all honesty it would probably lower my winning rate - but increase the fun rate. I'll just bring both and see what happens. At the very least it gives me a few excuses :lol:

Sounds about right for the ITTF (or any big company for that reason). Just pick and choose, now somebody try to stop me! mindsets.

Without having played it, could be similar to keiler, gipfelstrum, or neubauer killer short pips. All are probably faster than the older leyland. Maybe nittaku pimplemini or militall 2 from tsp. Lots of could be's -- doubtful any matchers.


That was my fear going to long pips, that I'd get comfy and not leave, even if it was better for my game to do so. But I think I am glad I took the plunge but maybe extra glad I didn't start with long pips. But then again, I'd have liked to have changed sooner than I did. Part of my problem I think is thst I have only used short pips against a handful of players in the country I'm in at the moment. So it's not like I was in one area doing really well, then changed to long pips and have past results to compare with. More like I hsve to base it on what I think their level or ability is with a certain style and try and compare with past results in other places to judge it. But going on my feeling here, I think the long pips have changed how I play, but it might be helping me to play better through more stable chopping. Still got variety with forehand, but I'll miss chopping variety and attacking without twiddling for as long as I use a rubber like P1r.

Let me know what you think of Dignics. Heard its a harder Tenergy, but only one from one source and may not be reliable :lol:.

You're working it out, your style. But if you feel you'd have a lower win rate chopping for whatever reason it doesn't make much sense. Unless you enjoy it so much thst losing more is acceptable.

No rubber around right now is close to Leyland. I've of course not tried every short pip out there, but unless something new had come around since I last checked I've tried most of the contenders. But in honesty, even if the composition of the rubber was exactly the same, it still wouldn't play the same. Reason being is thst Leyland had tiny pimples. Like really tiny. And the ittf limit doesn't allow thst. I'm guessing it's the tiny and soft (as said, on better kept sheets) pips thst give it long pip consistency while chopping, but grippy enough to vary the spin on chops and attack well. It's not an overly quick rubber but not slow. Would be too slow for attacking short pip players these days I'd imagine, but I think choppers would like it a lot.

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Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2020, 14:15 
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Snowman89 wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:


You're almost better off never even going to long pips, if coming from short/inverted. That reduction in precision, footwork, and everything else is a tough crutch to give up! And looking on, it seems you don't have to be nearly as good to be competitive with long pips - whereas to reach the same level with SP would require better everything. Not to say the LP are "easy" but definitely more suited for making the chopping job easier.

But as usual I'm catching the chop-bug again... tempted to buy a new sheet of dignics 64, slapping that baby on the faster chopping blade with d.tecs OX backhand and giving it a go this weekend. I feel more confident with the attacking now, to where I could comfortably loop-kill every so often to keep them honest. In all honesty it would probably lower my winning rate - but increase the fun rate. I'll just bring both and see what happens. At the very least it gives me a few excuses :lol:

Sounds about right for the ITTF (or any big company for that reason). Just pick and choose, now somebody try to stop me! mindsets.

Without having played it, could be similar to keiler, gipfelstrum, or neubauer killer short pips. All are probably faster than the older leyland. Maybe nittaku pimplemini or militall 2 from tsp. Lots of could be's -- doubtful any matchers.


That was my fear going to long pips, that I'd get comfy and not leave, even if it was better for my game to do so. But I think I am glad I took the plunge but maybe extra glad I didn't start with long pips. But then again, I'd have liked to have changed sooner than I did. Part of my problem I think is thst I have only used short pips against a handful of players in the country I'm in at the moment. So it's not like I was in one area doing really well, then changed to long pips and have past results to compare with. More like I hsve to base it on what I think their level or ability is with a certain style and try and compare with past results in other places to judge it. But going on my feeling here, I think the long pips have changed how I play, but it might be helping me to play better through more stable chopping. Still got variety with forehand, but I'll miss chopping variety and attacking without twiddling for as long as I use a rubber like P1r.

Let me know what you think of Dignics. Heard its a harder Tenergy, but only one from one source and may not be reliable :lol:.

You're working it out, your style. But if you feel you'd have a lower win rate chopping for whatever reason it doesn't make much sense. Unless you enjoy it so much thst losing more is acceptable.

No rubber around right now is close to Leyland. I've of course not tried every short pip out there, but unless something new had come around since I last checked I've tried most of the contenders. But in honesty, even if the composition of the rubber was exactly the same, it still wouldn't play the same. Reason being is thst Leyland had tiny pimples. Like really tiny. And the ittf limit doesn't allow thst. I'm guessing it's the tiny and soft (as said, on better kept sheets) pips thst give it long pip consistency while chopping, but grippy enough to vary the spin on chops and attack well. It's not an overly quick rubber but not slow. Would be too slow for attacking short pip players these days I'd imagine, but I think choppers would like it a lot.


Well, same as with OX LP blocking... it was more effective in bygone eras. Smaller ball, more spin etc. Short pips seem to fall into the same category. Wu Yang, my favorite SP chopper of all time!! vented her frustration previously about might as well swap to being an attacker, since her game was hit so hard by the new ball. If you look at her record before the new ball (around 2015?), I don't think she ever lost a match to anyone outside of the chinese elite in competition. The Great Wall is what they used to call her. China's gatekeeper. SP spectol rubber. Since then... she is still an elite player, of course, but will lose routinely to other top players. Kind of depressing for me to watch her play these days :lol: Having said that, she can beat pretty much anyone outside of the top 15 in the world. Whereas before she was rank #4 or #5.

If you watch her play now, the style is a bit different, in that she is very aggressive with the FH. Maybe that's just her maturing as a player and learning to harness it (the late-bloomer modern defender). But given her negative commentary about the ball, I'd have to assume it is a stylistic choice to remain competitive. She can no longer confuse and befuddle them with spins. She must do so, but the points are no longer lost outright as before. She has to draw out the 'error' which in this case is just a bad return, and punish it with a kill shot. Final result is, she needs one extra OFFENSIVE shot to put the point away. Now if that's the case... are the short pips helping her too much? I don't know... maybe the LP would give her more consistent BH chops, who knows. She rarely hits with the BH as it is.

I guess that all relates here, to the point of if you can't win outright anymore with the SP chop variations as before... is it worth giving up the ease/comfort of chopping with LP, to gain a few mis-read spin points by the opponent from SP? When all they need to do is play it safer and have less fear of the ball -- UNLESS the defender can deliver a powerful kill against these balls.

So for my style, it means why would I want to back off and chop... giving up some advantages, when it's all going to be reliant on the FH kill anyway? Basically, whether I play at the table blocking or away and chopping - either style, without the FH kills, is pretty impotent. Even with twiddle and all that. Then for me the question becomes... where do I feel most comfortable FH killing from? At the table, or running in and looping a weak return? What setup do I like? The block or the chop? And if it's at the table, my preference would probably be to adopt the c-pen Zhou Xintong style of LP hitting/chop-blocking, only using the inverted sparingly. Breaking it down, in my eyes, the 2 styles are almost identical - aside from the tactical changes and stuff comparing chop vs blocking. But mindset and final result are the same in my case.

For the rubber I went with tenergy 64 -- maybe after it wears out I will buy the dignics to test.

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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 01:18 
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My thoughts having played with Stiga Horizontal 55 1.4-1.7mm against a player now. Played against my most common sparring partner, so not against the really strong guys the other week. But can say a few things about it now.

Yea Skilless Slapper, your analysis of this rubber, which made me want to try it, is pretty much spot on. This is not a P1r clone at all. Completely different. This is a Curl P4 clone. I really suspect that the 20 degree sponge version plays extremely similar to P4, perhaps almost like the same rubber. But with 55 degree sponge, there are some differences. It's much better for attacking (it's actually really good for attacking). I personally prefer the harder sponge and find it easier to mix up my chops. Chops equally as heavy (as P4) and can both to same level it seems float a chop no matter the incoming spin. So I basically did not feel any reversal from this rubber. I'm sure there is, but it's so unnoticeable in actual play that I'll just say there isn't any. Perhaps the heavier loops can give you a higher ceiling for backspin potential, but definitely not scaling that much depending on incoming spin like Dtechs or P1r do. Thinking of this like a video game like Bloodborne, I'd give the latter a scaling of A and the former a scaling of D.

Feels amazing against dead balls and weaker topspin. Spins heavy regardless. It's more spin sensitive than P1r but still feels great at controlling spin for me. Can really chop the ass off the ball from the first chop. And confuse your opponent with floats. I really missed it on backhand. Great fun. My sparring partner shouting to himself for what he perceived was his error and wasn't catching on I was floating and chopping with a long pip.

So I found it to be better than P1r at almost everything in honesty, bar maybe a few areas. But those few areas are where maybe P1r sets itself apart. So feels great chopping with Horizontal but when sparring partner hit a particularly good shot, it was noticeably more difficult to return the ball with Horizontal compared to P1r. And Horizontal doesn't have the options thst inverted has, like fishing or attacking away from table, to compensate when you are presented with a ball more difficult to chop. So you have to chop it. Emergency chops are lighter in spin and are a tad more difficult to keep low compared to P1r.

So these last points above are quite important in match play for a chopper. But just like with short pips, you have more ways to win the point with Horizontal than P1r outside of a few scenarios. So depends on how likely your opponent is to get you in those situations. A strong player will get you in those situations though, which is where I feel long pips like Horizontal and short pips have a higher base skill requirement. And don't necessarily gain you better results when you meet the requirement. But it really opens the door for more varied play.

Horizontal is the rubber I was looking for not too long ago. Pretty much exactly it. But now that I've sunk deeper into the couch by using P1r, which is such a comfortable chopping rubber, I'm not sure I want to sit up and use this lol. I'll test it against the strong players when I next get on the table with them. Maybe play one of the stronger ones with P1r and then have a game at end with Horizontal and see what my thoughts are. While they are completely different rubbers, I dont find they require much adjustment to move from one to the other, like P1r and P4. So thinking I can probably get a good idea of it in a practice game.

Note: I didnt talk about 'deception' or 'funk'. It's not something I really care about but those who are interested, P1r has a more 'deceptive' chop. Slightly more difficult flight I feel, and it was backed up by my sparring partner saying the same. But you can play a more deceptive chopping game with Horizontal because of the extra control over how much spin you put on your chops. But the flight part, be it blocking, hitting, or chopping, is much more normal than P1r.

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 09:53 
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skilless_slapper wrote:

Well, same as with OX LP blocking... it was more effective in bygone eras. Smaller ball, more spin etc. Short pips seem to fall into the same category. Wu Yang, my favorite SP chopper of all time!! vented her frustration previously about might as well swap to being an attacker, since her game was hit so hard by the new ball. If you look at her record before the new ball (around 2015?), I don't think she ever lost a match to anyone outside of the chinese elite in competition. The Great Wall is what they used to call her. China's gatekeeper. SP spectol rubber. Since then... she is still an elite player, of course, but will lose routinely to other top players. Kind of depressing for me to watch her play these days :lol: Having said that, she can beat pretty much anyone outside of the top 15 in the world. Whereas before she was rank #4 or #5.

If you watch her play now, the style is a bit different, in that she is very aggressive with the FH. Maybe that's just her maturing as a player and learning to harness it (the late-bloomer modern defender). But given her negative commentary about the ball, I'd have to assume it is a stylistic choice to remain competitive. She can no longer confuse and befuddle them with spins. She must do so, but the points are no longer lost outright as before. She has to draw out the 'error' which in this case is just a bad return, and punish it with a kill shot. Final result is, she needs one extra OFFENSIVE shot to put the point away. Now if that's the case... are the short pips helping her too much? I don't know... maybe the LP would give her more consistent BH chops, who knows. She rarely hits with the BH as it is.

I guess that all relates here, to the point of if you can't win outright anymore with the SP chop variations as before... is it worth giving up the ease/comfort of chopping with LP, to gain a few mis-read spin points by the opponent from SP? When all they need to do is play it safer and have less fear of the ball -- UNLESS the defender can deliver a powerful kill against these balls.

So for my style, it means why would I want to back off and chop... giving up some advantages, when it's all going to be reliant on the FH kill anyway? Basically, whether I play at the table blocking or away and chopping - either style, without the FH kills, is pretty impotent. Even with twiddle and all that. Then for me the question becomes... where do I feel most comfortable FH killing from? At the table, or running in and looping a weak return? What setup do I like? The block or the chop? And if it's at the table, my preference would probably be to adopt the c-pen Zhou Xintong style of LP hitting/chop-blocking, only using the inverted sparingly. Breaking it down, in my eyes, the 2 styles are almost identical - aside from the tactical changes and stuff comparing chop vs blocking. But mindset and final result are the same in my case.

For the rubber I went with tenergy 64 -- maybe after it wears out I will buy the dignics to test.


Wu Yang seems to lean more towards classic defense. I think the style in general took a bomb to the gut with the new ball. Same happened to Shiono if I remember correctly. It just keeps getting harder to win points with defense alone with each decade it seems at the top level. So I'm saying I think it has more to do with her style than short pips themselves. My opinion anyway. I think Hou Yingchau shows variations in chop are still effective, bjt chopping in general, no matter what you use, would appear to be less effective now.

Joo said in an interview if he was coming up now he'd use short pips. Something along those lines anyway. Reason being because of the reduced backspin with long pips with new ball, so variation of short pips would be more effective. I'm not so sure that's actually true at this time, but no doubt long pips have been weakened. Chopping in general. I can see the difference just watching choppers in the 00s and then watching them now. More backspin back then, and forced more errors.

I don't think this applies as much at amateur level though. I took a break from tt before the new ball was properly introduced and by the time I came back, it had been too long to notice a difference. I'd have to do a direct A/B comparison. I was still able to float and chop well etc. And of course I never used long pips with the previous ball, so I missed out on the fun times apparently :lol:.

Thats a good way of putting it, where/how do you feel most comfortable killing the point with your forehand. I think for defenders and blockers now, that's kind of a key question. I feel short pips and long pips are a little different in how they setup the forehand kill. With blocking, makes more sense to use long pips or go Waldner with double inverted.

I think Hou is a pretty good example of how to be a chopper with short pips, as in not just how he uses the pips but how he uses his forehand with inverted too. Think Chen a good example of how long pips setup the forehand if you're eager to pounce at every opportunity.

The more I play with my setup, the more I appreciate the balance between the two rubbers, P1r and Hurricane. My sparring partner said thst to me as well, saying he thinks I shouldn't change because it's an effective partnership between the rubbers. Feel my game is becoming more simple with it, but perhaps in a good way. For all my issues with long pips I will say chopping has never been more fun than with P1r right now. And it's effective too. So it looks like a win win there.

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 21 Jan 2020, 02:59 
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BH: Spongeless reviled stuff
Snowman89 wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:

Well, same as with OX LP blocking... it was more effective in bygone eras. Smaller ball, more spin etc. Short pips seem to fall into the same category. Wu Yang, my favorite SP chopper of all time!! vented her frustration previously about might as well swap to being an attacker, since her game was hit so hard by the new ball. If you look at her record before the new ball (around 2015?), I don't think she ever lost a match to anyone outside of the chinese elite in competition. The Great Wall is what they used to call her. China's gatekeeper. SP spectol rubber. Since then... she is still an elite player, of course, but will lose routinely to other top players. Kind of depressing for me to watch her play these days :lol: Having said that, she can beat pretty much anyone outside of the top 15 in the world. Whereas before she was rank #4 or #5.

If you watch her play now, the style is a bit different, in that she is very aggressive with the FH. Maybe that's just her maturing as a player and learning to harness it (the late-bloomer modern defender). But given her negative commentary about the ball, I'd have to assume it is a stylistic choice to remain competitive. She can no longer confuse and befuddle them with spins. She must do so, but the points are no longer lost outright as before. She has to draw out the 'error' which in this case is just a bad return, and punish it with a kill shot. Final result is, she needs one extra OFFENSIVE shot to put the point away. Now if that's the case... are the short pips helping her too much? I don't know... maybe the LP would give her more consistent BH chops, who knows. She rarely hits with the BH as it is.

I guess that all relates here, to the point of if you can't win outright anymore with the SP chop variations as before... is it worth giving up the ease/comfort of chopping with LP, to gain a few mis-read spin points by the opponent from SP? When all they need to do is play it safer and have less fear of the ball -- UNLESS the defender can deliver a powerful kill against these balls.

So for my style, it means why would I want to back off and chop... giving up some advantages, when it's all going to be reliant on the FH kill anyway? Basically, whether I play at the table blocking or away and chopping - either style, without the FH kills, is pretty impotent. Even with twiddle and all that. Then for me the question becomes... where do I feel most comfortable FH killing from? At the table, or running in and looping a weak return? What setup do I like? The block or the chop? And if it's at the table, my preference would probably be to adopt the c-pen Zhou Xintong style of LP hitting/chop-blocking, only using the inverted sparingly. Breaking it down, in my eyes, the 2 styles are almost identical - aside from the tactical changes and stuff comparing chop vs blocking. But mindset and final result are the same in my case.

For the rubber I went with tenergy 64 -- maybe after it wears out I will buy the dignics to test.


Wu Yang seems to lean more towards classic defense. I think the style in general took a bomb to the gut with the new ball. Same happened to Shiono if I remember correctly. It just keeps getting harder to win points with defense alone with each decade it seems at the top level. So I'm saying I think it has more to do with her style than short pips themselves. My opinion anyway. I think Hou Yingchau shows variations in chop are still effective, bjt chopping in general, no matter what you use, would appear to be less effective now.

Joo said in an interview if he was coming up now he'd use short pips. Something along those lines anyway. Reason being because of the reduced backspin with long pips with new ball, so variation of short pips would be more effective. I'm not so sure that's actually true at this time, but no doubt long pips have been weakened. Chopping in general. I can see the difference just watching choppers in the 00s and then watching them now. More backspin back then, and forced more errors.

I don't think this applies as much at amateur level though. I took a break from tt before the new ball was properly introduced and by the time I came back, it had been too long to notice a difference. I'd have to do a direct A/B comparison. I was still able to float and chop well etc. And of course I never used long pips with the previous ball, so I missed out on the fun times apparently :lol:.

Thats a good way of putting it, where/how do you feel most comfortable killing the point with your forehand. I think for defenders and blockers now, that's kind of a key question. I feel short pips and long pips are a little different in how they setup the forehand kill. With blocking, makes more sense to use long pips or go Waldner with double inverted.

I think Hou is a pretty good example of how to be a chopper with short pips, as in not just how he uses the pips but how he uses his forehand with inverted too. Think Chen a good example of how long pips setup the forehand if you're eager to pounce at every opportunity.

The more I play with my setup, the more I appreciate the balance between the two rubbers, P1r and Hurricane. My sparring partner said thst to me as well, saying he thinks I shouldn't change because it's an effective partnership between the rubbers. Feel my game is becoming more simple with it, but perhaps in a good way. For all my issues with long pips I will say chopping has never been more fun than with P1r right now. And it's effective too. So it looks like a win win there.



No, horizontal is not going to have any deception with sponge that thick. It's a workhorse kind of rubber - get out what you put in. I use it on OX for chopping, but also at the table hitting. It sends back dead balls or some with very slight reversal. It wouldn't give anyone trouble with the passive block, unless they suck against no spins. I use it for more aggressive hitting, where you combine the knuckle effect with speed.

fl3, curl p4, and horizontal are right at the line when it comes to short vs long pips. All of them are grippy enough to where you must use actual strokes, not much different from short pips other than a bit more forgiving since they impart less spin.

From the sound of how your style is shaping up, I would lean more toward the security side of things. I would have to imagine overall, you'd win more from the consistency + FH finish than you would from drawing out the occasional error from a slightly more frictioned long pip - at least not enough to outweigh the misses. You can change the spin some, but against knowledgeable players I think that aspect of p4 or H55 is a pretty moot point and you'd be relying on consistency anyway. Only with a guaranteed slightly heavier back spin ball, regardless of incoming spin.

For my tournament action... had some good, some good but more importantly -- many excuses! :lol:

I started off doing the chopping + looping game, since my first events were in doubles. Those went well enough, and we beat all of the teams in our division for 1st place. After that the singles started, where I chose to use the OX LP blocking setup in order to give myself a real test with it. Games started out well enough! I beat the top seed a few games, but he adjusted soon thereafter and proved why he was the top! Thrashing me quite heavily in the last closing games. I felt good, knowing that I could compete against them on that level even if it was rather short lived... I played by going HAM with the forehand, and probably won around 70% of my points with a FH finish. The pips were just for consistency and an error now and then. I didn't feel confident in attacking with them yet (regretfully in hindsight), so it was a purely passive side. During the last game of my ass wooping, I decided to play as a chopper just for the hell of it. Seemed I did pretty well there also, at least not any worse. Later on I played an extremely good dynamo of a player from vietnam. Using the block style against him, he just massacred me. From either side. WAM BAM. That little demon treated my pips like a candy-filled pinata and just beat the crap out of them/me. However, I kept joking with him so over the final games he lightened up (after asserting his dominance :lol: ) and we had fun doing long rallies with me chopping or lobbing. His shots were so awesome! First time he sent a ball wizzing past me on a perfect angle, I called it outright luck. Then... he did it again to the opposite side right after! Luck again! But sure enough, his next one WAM! Same thing happened. Over and over. I told him if it weren't for those 10 lucky shots he hit on me in that game, I would have easily destroyed him :rofl:

That final game gave me the notion to play the remaining games as a chopper against the other players. I continued doing so, leveraging the FH quite heavily and winning the majority of my points with the loop. Chopping away from the table and running in to land a killer. Problem soon became... my back began flaring up and essentially prevented me from attacking or moving a whole lot. That was the story of my other matches. I decided to play the first game with as much intensity as I could, more just to prove to myself that I could beat them with my actual skill set - physical fatigue aside. Those were easily won, usually around 11-3 in my favor. But after that I was not able to perform very well and lost a number of them in the 5th, using pretty much 0 attacks. Or a half hearted swing, being too conscious of my spine, and hitting it straight into the net. My last match was against a much lower rated player... that I lost to! Could not move at all, just stood flatfooted at the table and to his credit he saw I wasn't attacking so played very safe and took no risks. I was scheduled for more matches in that round, but opted to leave early not wanting to really injure my back. I think it would've been smart to leave 1 match earlier than I did, but oh well.

Overall I felt great about the tournament, even with the losses. The games reinforced in me that I could compete and win against the "higher rated" players - though it also came with some depressing thoughts... that I can win with the skills I have, yet I'm not able to maintain those skills long enough to actually play hard and beat down the competition throughout the events. So unless I play 1 set showdowns! Or limit my events to maybe 1 per day (though seems like a waste of a drive to me :headbang: ), I'm not sure the current style is sustainable and that I might be better off focusing on one that I can scale with, all things considered. I'll have to do some testing to confirm, because my mid-back issue didn't arise until I started chopping AND looping. The right hip problem wasn't too present during my block/loop games so perhaps my body is acclimating itself to that stress. I don't mind the muscular soreness at all, it's the herniated disc area being re-injured that worries me... meaning I might have to give up the chop game for good and cement myself at the table as a blocking/looper. An annoying thought, since I've spent the better part of the last 2 years training chopping almost exclusively. I think I play better as the attacking chopper currently, from the angles to the distance and everything that goes with it - other than the spine issue, and perhaps not being able to scale as high against those electrifying players like the vietnamese guy I played.

**reflecting back again, will hold off judgement on any particular style until actually testing out the moves and trying to pinpoint which ones cause the flare ups

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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2020, 08:54 
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Where ye at, skilles_slapper and Snowman? :lol:

Just a quick update about life and TT. Let's start with life. I took two exams the last month - I'm following an education in ICT - and both went great. :party: I was fired from my job, though. I couldn't deal with the unexpected open office aspect of the job: I don't function in those kind of environments. It's a pity to lose the job, but in the end it's nothing more than a bump in the road to something greater.

Table tennis. I'm playing with my ordinary setup again: Joo blade, Hurricane 3-50 soft and P1-R. I trained against a decent looper T. (USATT 1800-1900) and won three games against him: 3-1, 3-1 and 3-0. Playing pure defense was quite hard, but when I started to attack with the pips during the first set of the first game, he started to doubt - literally. I won that set and from then on he never could dominate the game - unless I made the mistakes, both attacking and defending, myself. Because he played more passive from then on I had to play more aggressive. It worked. I also started to see playing patterns again. That's literally more than a year ago I experienced that.

Accepting long pips again as part of me as a player feels so good. It just feels natural, who I am. I think I tried SP to overcome the misery I experienced in the club, to show them I'm more than a LP player, to get accepted again by being more like them. However, I started to realize being a LP player doesn't mean I'm less than them. If anything their view of me suggests the opposite. I really start to realize I was never accepted in that club in the first place, although I was literally their best player for three years and was - among other things - the mastermind and decisive factor in promoting to a higher division. It's a poisonous environment from which I'll depart in the coming months, certainly in part (I still have real friends there), but it also might be a complete departure.

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My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that


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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2020, 17:33 
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Gave you the ol' boot, did they! I think it's never really a bad thing to get kicked out of a job you disliked anyway. Forces you to give up the previous comfort and either grow... or die! Similar thing happened to me -- though, I wasn't fired outright. They just told me if I kept getting reports on my record that I would be shown the door very soon. I said (mentally), F**K you guys! Then quit and started up my own company that I've been self-employed doing for a number of years now. Had I not quit and been forced to find a new way, who knows... maybe I'd still be toiling away receiving some X's on my weekly reports :lol:

That seems kind of odd to me, that you'd be so disliked for using pips. Could be that in the clubs I go to, there is a disproportionately high number of pips/junk rubber users. Not in my specific local one, but in the areas I go and play tournaments at. From what I see, people get mad at losing - period! But if you've got something different or unique that you do (pips etc.) they will attack that as if it's the only reason you're winning.

Also, appears you made the same discovery. Games are much easier if you simply attack the more passive guys... yes, doesn't give the same feeling as being a 'defender' since you are playing aggressively. However, far quicker and from my experience, more decisive. Either keep pummeling them or force the scoundrels into taking some initiative.

I'm still tinkering with styles and reluctantly, rubbers! My biggest annoyance came in the form of passive players. Dinking to the backhand, over and over. The frustrating part stems from the fact that I can't really BH attack anymore, so my only recourse to stop them is to run around the BH and use a FH loop (tiring if done over a number of matches!!) or to twiddle and focus on pushing with different spins. I enjoy the off the table chopping, even in OX LP. Problem is, those balls are not very difficult. If they send me low spin... they get low spin. So again I am forced to run around and FH loop kill. In that case I think, why not just stay at the table and block? Same as always...

**I've also begun doing a lot more training outside of TT. One of the coaches I had a session with told me, "How important is tt to you? If it's important, then you're going to need to be exercising and training outside of the tt." Weight lifting and that sort of thing has been my focus for a good number of years, but the more repetitive cardio-focused tt movements I didn't put any effort into. I think that's one of the reasons for my declining during tournaments and practices. I have a good 1-2 hours of playing at a high level and then the lack of motivation to push through rears its ugly head.

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 00:03 
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skilless_slapper wrote:

No, horizontal is not going to have any deception with sponge that thick. It's a workhorse kind of rubber - get out what you put in. I use it on OX for chopping, but also at the table hitting. It sends back dead balls or some with very slight reversal. It wouldn't give anyone trouble with the passive block, unless they suck against no spins. I use it for more aggressive hitting, where you combine the knuckle effect with speed.

fl3, curl p4, and horizontal are right at the line when it comes to short vs long pips. All of them are grippy enough to where you must use actual strokes, not much different from short pips other than a bit more forgiving since they impart less spin.

From the sound of how your style is shaping up, I would lean more toward the security side of things. I would have to imagine overall, you'd win more from the consistency + FH finish than you would from drawing out the occasional error from a slightly more frictioned long pip - at least not enough to outweigh the misses. You can change the spin some, but against knowledgeable players I think that aspect of p4 or H55 is a pretty moot point and you'd be relying on consistency anyway. Only with a guaranteed slightly heavier back spin ball, regardless of incoming spin.

For my tournament action... had some good, some good but more importantly -- many excuses! :lol:

I started off doing the chopping + looping game, since my first events were in doubles. Those went well enough, and we beat all of the teams in our division for 1st place. After that the singles started, where I chose to use the OX LP blocking setup in order to give myself a real test with it. Games started out well enough! I beat the top seed a few games, but he adjusted soon thereafter and proved why he was the top! Thrashing me quite heavily in the last closing games. I felt good, knowing that I could compete against them on that level even if it was rather short lived... I played by going HAM with the forehand, and probably won around 70% of my points with a FH finish. The pips were just for consistency and an error now and then. I didn't feel confident in attacking with them yet (regretfully in hindsight), so it was a purely passive side. During the last game of my ass wooping, I decided to play as a chopper just for the hell of it. Seemed I did pretty well there also, at least not any worse. Later on I played an extremely good dynamo of a player from vietnam. Using the block style against him, he just massacred me. From either side. WAM BAM. That little demon treated my pips like a candy-filled pinata and just beat the crap out of them/me. However, I kept joking with him so over the final games he lightened up (after asserting his dominance :lol: ) and we had fun doing long rallies with me chopping or lobbing. His shots were so awesome! First time he sent a ball wizzing past me on a perfect angle, I called it outright luck. Then... he did it again to the opposite side right after! Luck again! But sure enough, his next one WAM! Same thing happened. Over and over. I told him if it weren't for those 10 lucky shots he hit on me in that game, I would have easily destroyed him :rofl:

That final game gave me the notion to play the remaining games as a chopper against the other players. I continued doing so, leveraging the FH quite heavily and winning the majority of my points with the loop. Chopping away from the table and running in to land a killer. Problem soon became... my back began flaring up and essentially prevented me from attacking or moving a whole lot. That was the story of my other matches. I decided to play the first game with as much intensity as I could, more just to prove to myself that I could beat them with my actual skill set - physical fatigue aside. Those were easily won, usually around 11-3 in my favor. But after that I was not able to perform very well and lost a number of them in the 5th, using pretty much 0 attacks. Or a half hearted swing, being too conscious of my spine, and hitting it straight into the net. My last match was against a much lower rated player... that I lost to! Could not move at all, just stood flatfooted at the table and to his credit he saw I wasn't attacking so played very safe and took no risks. I was scheduled for more matches in that round, but opted to leave early not wanting to really injure my back. I think it would've been smart to leave 1 match earlier than I did, but oh well.

Overall I felt great about the tournament, even with the losses. The games reinforced in me that I could compete and win against the "higher rated" players - though it also came with some depressing thoughts... that I can win with the skills I have, yet I'm not able to maintain those skills long enough to actually play hard and beat down the competition throughout the events. So unless I play 1 set showdowns! Or limit my events to maybe 1 per day (though seems like a waste of a drive to me :headbang: ), I'm not sure the current style is sustainable and that I might be better off focusing on one that I can scale with, all things considered. I'll have to do some testing to confirm, because my mid-back issue didn't arise until I started chopping AND looping. The right hip problem wasn't too present during my block/loop games so perhaps my body is acclimating itself to that stress. I don't mind the muscular soreness at all, it's the herniated disc area being re-injured that worries me... meaning I might have to give up the chop game for good and cement myself at the table as a blocking/looper. An annoying thought, since I've spent the better part of the last 2 years training chopping almost exclusively. I think I play better as the attacking chopper currently, from the angles to the distance and everything that goes with it - other than the spine issue, and perhaps not being able to scale as high against those electrifying players like the vietnamese guy I played.

**reflecting back again, will hold off judgement on any particular style until actually testing out the moves and trying to pinpoint which ones cause the flare ups


Feels like it's been ages since posted. Just been too busy recently...

Anyway, I haven't gotten around to putting Horizontal 55 up to a real test yet, but I will, soon. I think only against one of the national level guys here will I be able to judge just how well I can manipulate spin with it, as in can it manipulate it well enough to draw enough errors to balance out the few extra errors you'd bound to make, plus the few loose chops you'll inevitably do with it thst will get killed by anyone any good. But against league level players here, it would probably be more useful than short pips. More forgiving than short pips and still enough variation to make them dunk it into the net or send it flying at your will really.

But p1r is the leader of the lack right now. Builds up nasty spin quickly and is very secure. Seems to be the best compromise at this time. My original fear was thst against a strong player I'd just be chopping all day, but thst was put to rest by playing some high level guys. Feel a sense of trust in the rubber now, like it will back me up 8). I'm curious to see to what extent such players can 'get used to it' though. In the past, I never felt comfortable playing anyone the first few times, win or lose. But the more I played them, the better I'd get at playing them. I'd make less errors, be more aggressive generally, and float and chop with greater success. So never worried about playing the same people again and again as ultimately felt it was in my favor. But with P1r, it feels like it's really just a few simple approaches I can take with it. So what happens if I play one of those national guys here like 20 times? Will it get progressively more difficult to beat them, or will i still improve enough against them to slowly make life easier against thst player. The only players I've played in double digits so far with long pips are a few league players here (in practice). Like before when using short pips, I have found them progressively easier. So maybe that's some evidence that it works the same as before. Think these types of fears are just me not knowing the ropes in and out yet regards long pips. Was so used to short pips thst it got to a point where I had certain expectations of each situation, realistic ones.

I think one of the appealing things about Horizontal 55 in 1.5mm is thst it would appear you could literally play the exact way you would with short pips. Just that the spin manipulation slider has been moved backwards a bit and the forgivenss slider forwards. Feels very natural to me coming from so many years playing with short pips in the past. Attack, float, heavy cut, just good variety. The harder sponge definitely enhances its short pip like traits id say, basing thst on P4 and FL3 with their soft sponge. But for all thst, I think it will be P1r in the end. Just too secure and yet still capable of dangerous defensive shots. But I might feel differently if I kick some ass with Horizontal :angel:.

Lol @ if it weren't for those 10 lucky shots you'd have destroyed him. Well, sounds like a good player. For the pips to have an impact on someone like thst you'd probably have to get a fair few balls back. Always easier said then done. Sounds like you enjoyed the matches though and youve come away with some things to think about.

As for you 'burning out' /not being able to sustain the level you were able to achieve, plus getting injured, I wonder how much of thst is due to you using different styles on the day? Or in general really. If you chose one and just went all in on it for a long period of time, do you think you'd have the same problem? Not saying you should stop experimenting with styles right now, I think it's a good thing yuyre doing, but maybe don't throw a style out the window just yet based on this issue. My two cents anyway. But yea, would be smart to figure out exactly what movements cause the issue. Maybe it can be worked around with some technical adjustment to yuur strikes, footwork, etc.

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 01:06 
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Count Darkula
Count Darkula
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Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 15:07
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Location: Dark side of Australia!!
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Blade: Bty Gergely T5000
FH: TSP Regalis Blue Max
BH: Tibhar Grass Dtecs
Wow Lorre, sounds like you been to hell and back....or to SP and back to LP which is kinda the same ;)

A lot of stuff going on in your life since the start of the blog, but it sounds like the exploration journey has taught you a lot. Good stuff...PS. I didn't read the ENTIRE blog, but enough to get the gist of what has gone on :)

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S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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