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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 01:25 
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Lorre wrote:
Where ye at, skilles_slapper and Snowman? :lol:

Just a quick update about life and TT. Let's start with life. I took two exams the last month - I'm following an education in ICT - and both went great. :party: I was fired from my job, though. I couldn't deal with the unexpected open office aspect of the job: I don't function in those kind of environments. It's a pity to lose the job, but in the end it's nothing more than a bump in the road to something greater.

Table tennis. I'm playing with my ordinary setup again: Joo blade, Hurricane 3-50 soft and P1-R. I trained against a decent looper T. (USATT 1800-1900) and won three games against him: 3-1, 3-1 and 3-0. Playing pure defense was quite hard, but when I started to attack with the pips during the first set of the first game, he started to doubt - literally. I won that set and from then on he never could dominate the game - unless I made the mistakes, both attacking and defending, myself. Because he played more passive from then on I had to play more aggressive. It worked. I also started to see playing patterns again. That's literally more than a year ago I experienced that.

Accepting long pips again as part of me as a player feels so good. It just feels natural, who I am. I think I tried SP to overcome the misery I experienced in the club, to show them I'm more than a LP player, to get accepted again by being more like them. However, I started to realize being a LP player doesn't mean I'm less than them. If anything their view of me suggests the opposite. I really start to realize I was never accepted in that club in the first place, although I was literally their best player for three years and was - among other things - the mastermind and decisive factor in promoting to a higher division. It's a poisonous environment from which I'll depart in the coming months, certainly in part (I still have real friends there), but it also might be a complete departure.


Sorry to hear you lost your job, but sounds like it might have been for the best . Hope you find something you're looking for soon.

Assuming you saying yuyre seeing patterns again by playing with long pips is something similar to what I experience too. When used short pips, rallies felt less on a leash, for lack of a better word right now. Rallies were more varied. With P1r, it's like so many rallies follow a way point or something lol. So I see the same rally almost quite a lot, and as such, see the same opportunities. So far, the advantage of this for me has been more predictable play and therefore better attacking opportunities.

You're a defender. Plus you had long pips. Plus you were beating them. As skilless slapper said, people just hate losing, and most are bad losers and don't want to see the reality of it, opting instead to lay the blame on whatever is most convenient. You 1) playing a different style to most and 2) using long pips just gives that kind of person so much ammunition. Your story sounds a little like my dad's, thst I shared in a much earlier post here. I think we have to accept this. If you're not thst good relative to your environment, and you chop with long pips, I'd say few would get all 'hostile'. I can see this right now at a smaller club I play at mostly for convenience time wise at the moment. 3 other choppers there. Two are pretty bad, one isn't bad. The one who isn't bad is their best player, but they talk s*** behind his back. He lost recently, think only second loss of his current season in his division. They said 'he's being found out'. That's what yuyre dealing with as a chopper. You never win really in their eyes. You win its because of yuur pips. You lose, even if you win all the time, it's because you're being found out. I've experienced the same s***, and they seem to believe it, as when you whoop them the next time they act all surprised. Choppers can't hsve a bad day or a bad match up apparently. Regarding the other two choppers, they don't care about them. One is double inverted and the other long pips. They don't win much, so receive no real particular bad comments outside of them not being very good.

I remember knowing one guy, a long pip chopper with an average rank in a decent league. Remember people saying he won because of his pips etc. He ended up changing his style and equipment completely, to a double inverted attacker. Took a while but think he got to roughly same standard. Then he started talking down on pips. Funny.

I doubt you'd be 'praised' much more if you became a double inverted chopper and had the same results. You'd definitely be getting rid of one element they find to be an easy target, but probably just gives more room to target yuur style being the problem.

Think we as choppers just need to accept that this is how a lot of players will view us (seems less so in some cultures though, and extremely so in others) and focus instead on our end. Which is maybe easier says than done, and perhaps Skilless Slapper's approach such as bringing custom pip joke tshirts and such is spot on lol. Embrace it :devil: . Also, this does seem to happen less and less the better the player yuyre playing. Unless they're very young but play at a high level. In thst case I think it's just inexperience.

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Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 02:31 
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It's amazing how much of a difference the blade makes. So I've been testing a blade called the 'Kameo Kombination', a YLT blade. Two different sides one for pips and the other for smooth rubber. Amazing how much it changes Hurricane compared to on Joo blade. More catapult effect, and quicker, yet strangely still very controlled for chopping. Completely different feel though, so more comfortable with Hurricane on Joo at the moment. We'll see if thst changes. The pip side seems to be pretty amazing. So I've got Feint Long 2 1.1mm on it, a rubber I found to hsve amazing control but to be a fair bit behind P1r in terms of backspin potential. I haven't tested it against one of the top dudes yet, but man, judging from my tests against the league level guys, this blade is insane. In the one session I gave it a proper go, not one chop was lifted in drill format. So literally I chop once and my sparring partner's loop went into the net, a few going off end of table. For reference, it takes 1-3 chops with P1r 1.5mm on my joo blade for same result. I switched bsch to P1r on Joo blade after a while to AB them. Sparring partner immediately lifted three chops. Netted the first on next one, but definitely much more spin with YLT blade. I got thst 'the rubber is tearing' feeling I only get with P1r against the really heavy spin, but was getting with Feint Long 2 consistently it seemed on this blade on the first ball. I was also getting more control when chopping, and easier to keep chops net skimming. Only thing that really stands out as a possible negative is the head size, a bit smaller than the Joo blade. Otherwise, this blade seems very special indeed. Pip side outperformed Joo blade it seems, but I'll wait to confirm thst against one of the top players, but not sure about smooth rubber side at the moment. Just completely different feel. Soft, spongy almost, opposed to the harder feel of the joo, yet its quicker. Seems to give Hurricane a higher throw.

Will add though thst in another session I managed to pin down a fellow chopper and got him to try it. He uses Feint Long on a Diode V blade. He got more spin on his chops with the Diode, so the opposite to my experience. But his chops were lower with the YLT blade, and a little more consistent, like how I felt. But I don't know how much of thst is down to 1.1mm and also the fact thst Feint Long is a steadier rubber than P1r.

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 08:50 
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Blade: SOULSPIN DEFENSE
FH: Spinny stuff
BH: Spongeless reviled stuff
Snowman89 wrote:
Lorre wrote:
Where ye at, skilles_slapper and Snowman? :lol:

Just a quick update about life and TT. Let's start with life. I took two exams the last month - I'm following an education in ICT - and both went great. :party: I was fired from my job, though. I couldn't deal with the unexpected open office aspect of the job: I don't function in those kind of environments. It's a pity to lose the job, but in the end it's nothing more than a bump in the road to something greater.

Table tennis. I'm playing with my ordinary setup again: Joo blade, Hurricane 3-50 soft and P1-R. I trained against a decent looper T. (USATT 1800-1900) and won three games against him: 3-1, 3-1 and 3-0. Playing pure defense was quite hard, but when I started to attack with the pips during the first set of the first game, he started to doubt - literally. I won that set and from then on he never could dominate the game - unless I made the mistakes, both attacking and defending, myself. Because he played more passive from then on I had to play more aggressive. It worked. I also started to see playing patterns again. That's literally more than a year ago I experienced that.

Accepting long pips again as part of me as a player feels so good. It just feels natural, who I am. I think I tried SP to overcome the misery I experienced in the club, to show them I'm more than a LP player, to get accepted again by being more like them. However, I started to realize being a LP player doesn't mean I'm less than them. If anything their view of me suggests the opposite. I really start to realize I was never accepted in that club in the first place, although I was literally their best player for three years and was - among other things - the mastermind and decisive factor in promoting to a higher division. It's a poisonous environment from which I'll depart in the coming months, certainly in part (I still have real friends there), but it also might be a complete departure.


Sorry to hear you lost your job, but sounds like it might have been for the best . Hope you find something you're looking for soon.

Assuming you saying yuyre seeing patterns again by playing with long pips is something similar to what I experience too. When used short pips, rallies felt less on a leash, for lack of a better word right now. Rallies were more varied. With P1r, it's like so many rallies follow a way point or something lol. So I see the same rally almost quite a lot, and as such, see the same opportunities. So far, the advantage of this for me has been more predictable play and therefore better attacking opportunities.

You're a defender. Plus you had long pips. Plus you were beating them. As skilless slapper said, people just hate losing, and most are bad losers and don't want to see the reality of it, opting instead to lay the blame on whatever is most convenient. You 1) playing a different style to most and 2) using long pips just gives that kind of person so much ammunition. Your story sounds a little like my dad's, thst I shared in a much earlier post here. I think we have to accept this. If you're not thst good relative to your environment, and you chop with long pips, I'd say few would get all 'hostile'. I can see this right now at a smaller club I play at mostly for convenience time wise at the moment. 3 other choppers there. Two are pretty bad, one isn't bad. The one who isn't bad is their best player, but they talk s*** behind his back. He lost recently, think only second loss of his current season in his division. They said 'he's being found out'. That's what yuyre dealing with as a chopper. You never win really in their eyes. You win its because of yuur pips. You lose, even if you win all the time, it's because you're being found out. I've experienced the same s***, and they seem to believe it, as when you whoop them the next time they act all surprised. Choppers can't hsve a bad day or a bad match up apparently. Regarding the other two choppers, they don't care about them. One is double inverted and the other long pips. They don't win much, so receive no real particular bad comments outside of them not being very good.

I remember knowing one guy, a long pip chopper with an average rank in a decent league. Remember people saying he won because of his pips etc. He ended up changing his style and equipment completely, to a double inverted attacker. Took a while but think he got to roughly same standard. Then he started talking down on pips. Funny.

I doubt you'd be 'praised' much more if you became a double inverted chopper and had the same results. You'd definitely be getting rid of one element they find to be an easy target, but probably just gives more room to target yuur style being the problem.

Think we as choppers just need to accept that this is how a lot of players will view us (seems less so in some cultures though, and extremely so in others) and focus instead on our end. Which is maybe easier says than done, and perhaps Skilless Slapper's approach such as bringing custom pip joke tshirts and such is spot on lol. Embrace it :devil: . Also, this does seem to happen less and less the better the player yuyre playing. Unless they're very young but play at a high level. In thst case I think it's just inexperience.


This is one of my better received shirts :lol: when doing close to the table blocking, but it works for pips as well


https://imgur.com/a/LogwSI3

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Bh: Not so spinny rubber...


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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2020, 16:01 
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Hey, has anyone tried nittaku do knuckle medium pips? Heard Hitomi Sato uses it. I might give it a go soon.


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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2020, 17:21 
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Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita
FH: DHS Hurricane 3
BH: TSP Curl P1R 1,0
Pure Luck wrote:
Hey, has anyone tried nittaku do knuckle medium pips? Heard Hitomi Sato uses it. I might give it a go soon.

Yes, I did, with 1,4mm sponge, red. I have been using it for about 3 weeks, but went back to my usual rubber, Curl P1R, 1,0mm. My impression:
- quite insensitive to incoming spin
- much faster than P1R
- less spin on chops (probably because it's faster: it is much more difficult to really dig into the ball)
- good control
- attacking quite difficult, but effective

PM me, if you want to try it out. If you cover the postal fees I'll send you the rubber for your test. It is cut to 165x156mm (VKM).

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2020, 22:23 
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Ah no thanks, I've already got it. Same color and thickness. I'm testing it tomorrow. Judging from your impressions it might suit me!


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2020, 07:50 
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0x556c69 wrote:
Pure Luck wrote:
Hey, has anyone tried nittaku do knuckle medium pips? Heard Hitomi Sato uses it. I might give it a go soon.

Yes, I did, with 1,4mm sponge, red. I have been using it for about 3 weeks, but went back to my usual rubber, Curl P1R, 1,0mm. My impression:
- quite insensitive to incoming spin
- much faster than P1R
- less spin on chops (probably because it's faster: it is much more difficult to really dig into the ball)
- good control
- attacking quite difficult, but effective

Your impressions turned out to be similar to mine.
Except that I found attacking both easy and effective.
I don't like the dull sound though - I prefer loud pips lol.
I'm keeping it for the time being, it suits my mixed style.


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 04:36 
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Blade: SOULSPIN DEFENSE
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BH: Spongeless reviled stuff
Snowman89 wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:

No, horizontal is not going to have any deception with sponge that thick. It's a workhorse kind of rubber - get out what you put in. I use it on OX for chopping, but also at the table hitting. It sends back dead balls or some with very slight reversal. It wouldn't give anyone trouble with the passive block, unless they suck against no spins. I use it for more aggressive hitting, where you combine the knuckle effect with speed.

fl3, curl p4, and horizontal are right at the line when it comes to short vs long pips. All of them are grippy enough to where you must use actual strokes, not much different from short pips other than a bit more forgiving since they impart less spin.

From the sound of how your style is shaping up, I would lean more toward the security side of things. I would have to imagine overall, you'd win more from the consistency + FH finish than you would from drawing out the occasional error from a slightly more frictioned long pip - at least not enough to outweigh the misses. You can change the spin some, but against knowledgeable players I think that aspect of p4 or H55 is a pretty moot point and you'd be relying on consistency anyway. Only with a guaranteed slightly heavier back spin ball, regardless of incoming spin.

For my tournament action... had some good, some good but more importantly -- many excuses! :lol:

I started off doing the chopping + looping game, since my first events were in doubles. Those went well enough, and we beat all of the teams in our division for 1st place. After that the singles started, where I chose to use the OX LP blocking setup in order to give myself a real test with it. Games started out well enough! I beat the top seed a few games, but he adjusted soon thereafter and proved why he was the top! Thrashing me quite heavily in the last closing games. I felt good, knowing that I could compete against them on that level even if it was rather short lived... I played by going HAM with the forehand, and probably won around 70% of my points with a FH finish. The pips were just for consistency and an error now and then. I didn't feel confident in attacking with them yet (regretfully in hindsight), so it was a purely passive side. During the last game of my ass wooping, I decided to play as a chopper just for the hell of it. Seemed I did pretty well there also, at least not any worse. Later on I played an extremely good dynamo of a player from vietnam. Using the block style against him, he just massacred me. From either side. WAM BAM. That little demon treated my pips like a candy-filled pinata and just beat the crap out of them/me. However, I kept joking with him so over the final games he lightened up (after asserting his dominance :lol: ) and we had fun doing long rallies with me chopping or lobbing. His shots were so awesome! First time he sent a ball wizzing past me on a perfect angle, I called it outright luck. Then... he did it again to the opposite side right after! Luck again! But sure enough, his next one WAM! Same thing happened. Over and over. I told him if it weren't for those 10 lucky shots he hit on me in that game, I would have easily destroyed him :rofl:

That final game gave me the notion to play the remaining games as a chopper against the other players. I continued doing so, leveraging the FH quite heavily and winning the majority of my points with the loop. Chopping away from the table and running in to land a killer. Problem soon became... my back began flaring up and essentially prevented me from attacking or moving a whole lot. That was the story of my other matches. I decided to play the first game with as much intensity as I could, more just to prove to myself that I could beat them with my actual skill set - physical fatigue aside. Those were easily won, usually around 11-3 in my favor. But after that I was not able to perform very well and lost a number of them in the 5th, using pretty much 0 attacks. Or a half hearted swing, being too conscious of my spine, and hitting it straight into the net. My last match was against a much lower rated player... that I lost to! Could not move at all, just stood flatfooted at the table and to his credit he saw I wasn't attacking so played very safe and took no risks. I was scheduled for more matches in that round, but opted to leave early not wanting to really injure my back. I think it would've been smart to leave 1 match earlier than I did, but oh well.

Overall I felt great about the tournament, even with the losses. The games reinforced in me that I could compete and win against the "higher rated" players - though it also came with some depressing thoughts... that I can win with the skills I have, yet I'm not able to maintain those skills long enough to actually play hard and beat down the competition throughout the events. So unless I play 1 set showdowns! Or limit my events to maybe 1 per day (though seems like a waste of a drive to me :headbang: ), I'm not sure the current style is sustainable and that I might be better off focusing on one that I can scale with, all things considered. I'll have to do some testing to confirm, because my mid-back issue didn't arise until I started chopping AND looping. The right hip problem wasn't too present during my block/loop games so perhaps my body is acclimating itself to that stress. I don't mind the muscular soreness at all, it's the herniated disc area being re-injured that worries me... meaning I might have to give up the chop game for good and cement myself at the table as a blocking/looper. An annoying thought, since I've spent the better part of the last 2 years training chopping almost exclusively. I think I play better as the attacking chopper currently, from the angles to the distance and everything that goes with it - other than the spine issue, and perhaps not being able to scale as high against those electrifying players like the vietnamese guy I played.

**reflecting back again, will hold off judgement on any particular style until actually testing out the moves and trying to pinpoint which ones cause the flare ups


Feels like it's been ages since posted. Just been too busy recently...

Anyway, I haven't gotten around to putting Horizontal 55 up to a real test yet, but I will, soon. I think only against one of the national level guys here will I be able to judge just how well I can manipulate spin with it, as in can it manipulate it well enough to draw enough errors to balance out the few extra errors you'd bound to make, plus the few loose chops you'll inevitably do with it thst will get killed by anyone any good. But against league level players here, it would probably be more useful than short pips. More forgiving than short pips and still enough variation to make them dunk it into the net or send it flying at your will really.

But p1r is the leader of the lack right now. Builds up nasty spin quickly and is very secure. Seems to be the best compromise at this time. My original fear was thst against a strong player I'd just be chopping all day, but thst was put to rest by playing some high level guys. Feel a sense of trust in the rubber now, like it will back me up 8). I'm curious to see to what extent such players can 'get used to it' though. In the past, I never felt comfortable playing anyone the first few times, win or lose. But the more I played them, the better I'd get at playing them. I'd make less errors, be more aggressive generally, and float and chop with greater success. So never worried about playing the same people again and again as ultimately felt it was in my favor. But with P1r, it feels like it's really just a few simple approaches I can take with it. So what happens if I play one of those national guys here like 20 times? Will it get progressively more difficult to beat them, or will i still improve enough against them to slowly make life easier against thst player. The only players I've played in double digits so far with long pips are a few league players here (in practice). Like before when using short pips, I have found them progressively easier. So maybe that's some evidence that it works the same as before. Think these types of fears are just me not knowing the ropes in and out yet regards long pips. Was so used to short pips thst it got to a point where I had certain expectations of each situation, realistic ones.

I think one of the appealing things about Horizontal 55 in 1.5mm is thst it would appear you could literally play the exact way you would with short pips. Just that the spin manipulation slider has been moved backwards a bit and the forgivenss slider forwards. Feels very natural to me coming from so many years playing with short pips in the past. Attack, float, heavy cut, just good variety. The harder sponge definitely enhances its short pip like traits id say, basing thst on P4 and FL3 with their soft sponge. But for all thst, I think it will be P1r in the end. Just too secure and yet still capable of dangerous defensive shots. But I might feel differently if I kick some ass with Horizontal :angel:.

Lol @ if it weren't for those 10 lucky shots you'd have destroyed him. Well, sounds like a good player. For the pips to have an impact on someone like thst you'd probably have to get a fair few balls back. Always easier said then done. Sounds like you enjoyed the matches though and youve come away with some things to think about.

As for you 'burning out' /not being able to sustain the level you were able to achieve, plus getting injured, I wonder how much of thst is due to you using different styles on the day? Or in general really. If you chose one and just went all in on it for a long period of time, do you think you'd have the same problem? Not saying you should stop experimenting with styles right now, I think it's a good thing yuyre doing, but maybe don't throw a style out the window just yet based on this issue. My two cents anyway. But yea, would be smart to figure out exactly what movements cause the issue. Maybe it can be worked around with some technical adjustment to yuur strikes, footwork, etc.


Got hit by the F*** flu plague... flatlined me for a bit there. What a mess!

From my experience, most any "good" player will get used to pips more less. Unlike some people I play who never, ever... ever! learn or adapt to my pips. If you battle someone who really wants to learn them, I think it turns back into a game of attrition, regardless of pips almost. Who's going to be more consistent, who's going to take bigger risks and earn the points? Who's hot that day? Who's off?

With H55 or SP, there's no real getting 'used' to the pips. Since they play basically like weaker inverted, the trickery must come from the player using them. I don't think anyone would even call you a PIPS PLAYER using those two, unless they are bottom of the barrel sadsacks! Aside from killing off a tiny bit of spin in comparison to inverted, there aren't any wobble or knuckle balls to complain about. Though as you mentioned, with pips that grippy... you lose the safety of lesser friction. It takes much more commitment going with heavy grip pips for chopping due to the same reason. And if you have to commit that much to it... then you sacrifice other areas. The more I play and against varied people, I think the stable backhand with whatever pip you can comfortably chop with mixed with a very aggressive FH side is about all you need. Be less diverse but more lethal and simplified.

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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2020, 04:39 
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Snowman89 wrote:
It's amazing how much of a difference the blade makes. So I've been testing a blade called the 'Kameo Kombination', a YLT blade. Two different sides one for pips and the other for smooth rubber. Amazing how much it changes Hurricane compared to on Joo blade. More catapult effect, and quicker, yet strangely still very controlled for chopping. Completely different feel though, so more comfortable with Hurricane on Joo at the moment. We'll see if thst changes. The pip side seems to be pretty amazing. So I've got Feint Long 2 1.1mm on it, a rubber I found to hsve amazing control but to be a fair bit behind P1r in terms of backspin potential. I haven't tested it against one of the top dudes yet, but man, judging from my tests against the league level guys, this blade is insane. In the one session I gave it a proper go, not one chop was lifted in drill format. So literally I chop once and my sparring partner's loop went into the net, a few going off end of table. For reference, it takes 1-3 chops with P1r 1.5mm on my joo blade for same result. I switched bsch to P1r on Joo blade after a while to AB them. Sparring partner immediately lifted three chops. Netted the first on next one, but definitely much more spin with YLT blade. I got thst 'the rubber is tearing' feeling I only get with P1r against the really heavy spin, but was getting with Feint Long 2 consistently it seemed on this blade on the first ball. I was also getting more control when chopping, and easier to keep chops net skimming. Only thing that really stands out as a possible negative is the head size, a bit smaller than the Joo blade. Otherwise, this blade seems very special indeed. Pip side outperformed Joo blade it seems, but I'll wait to confirm thst against one of the top players, but not sure about smooth rubber side at the moment. Just completely different feel. Soft, spongy almost, opposed to the harder feel of the joo, yet its quicker. Seems to give Hurricane a higher throw.

Will add though thst in another session I managed to pin down a fellow chopper and got him to try it. He uses Feint Long on a Diode V blade. He got more spin on his chops with the Diode, so the opposite to my experience. But his chops were lower with the YLT blade, and a little more consistent, like how I felt. But I don't know how much of thst is down to 1.1mm and also the fact thst Feint Long is a steadier rubber than P1r.



Some people think the rubbers make the biggest difference, but I've always felt it was the blade. And I think I'm right!!

Especially if the blades are very different (such as my 5.0mm compared to the 6.4mm etc.). Put a sheet of tenergy on one, then try it on another -- very different experience! However, the rubbers don't make a huge difference to me. Tenergy vs victas vs gewo or whatever else they sell in the same class.

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SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...


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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2020, 09:02 
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Blade: SOULSPIN DEFENSE
FH: Spinny stuff
BH: Spongeless reviled stuff
For my own purposes, I've given up on OX LP chopping off the table. Reason being, it didn't provide much of a challenge to the other player once they got used to it and developed a sit and wait strategy. This forced me into either twiddling like a madman and hoping for a mistake... whilst having to learn 2 rubbers per side, both at equal levels, eating into training time when -- the more convenient answer was simply to forehand attack! Run around and hit the big winners to dissuade them from dinking the ball back without feeling much pressure.

But... that style is better when blocking at the table with OX LP as it puts time/speed pressure on them and makes it easier for me to setup and hit the forehands. I started focusing almost entirely on the FH, making it into a weapon and not something I tried to avoid. In my mind, I wanted the opponent to say 'DO NOT HIT TO HIS FOREHAND!!' and feel it was safer going to my pips. That means I get to dictate how much FH attacking I want to do, as I can keep bumping it to their wide forehand and bait one to my FH, or I can run around the BH and FH loop. Playing this style, I had transitioned from a "BH blocker" to a FH attacker, who happens to block with OX LP on the backhand. Most of my points were won not with the pips, but with the inverted attacks.

My issue there is... do I enjoy doing that!?

So, having said that, I also went back to short pips (challenger attack 1.5) on the BH of my thin chopping blade. Reason there being that I felt the OX LP were rather useless, unless I wanted to depend on the FH to finish. With the short pips, I can put opponents under pressure from all stages of the game. And if they want to engage in push wars, I can alter spin and make them uncomfortable, while also being able to bring the FH into play on weaker/poor placed shots.

Only downside there is against heavy top spin loops... though I don't feel too bad about it, since when chopping, I kind of... want them to attack me! So if they loop, great! I miss more with the SP but the opponent is less relaxed and more prone to making mistakes as well. It basically turned up the risk for both players. Using SP on the backhand, I can still continue to chop comfortably on the FH and loop/hit if I feel like it. The strategy there hinged more on classic defense, where I relied more heavily on drawing out mistakes and less dependency on my FH attack to win.

I feel good in segmenting the two styles, and now I just have to decide which one to pursue... the block/hit https://youtu.be/KOC_RWwL-XI

or the chop and occasional loop style more like https://youtu.be/mUAb_Q_hucs

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Bh: Not so spinny rubber...


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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2020, 00:27 
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Played another tournament, using the two different styles in 2 events.

First one was the ox lp blocking... was using the forehand quite effectively and won most points by hitting winners with it. Problem became... my low back/hip area was already sore from overtraining and flared up again, so I pussied out and stopped attacking or would do half hearted attempts and miss. Came close to winning still, making it I to the 5th game after winning the first 2... but the damn basyard got three!! Edge balls at my lead and I botched the final return for the loss at 9-11.

Again there, the strategy seemed fine enough but the body coulsnt maintain that kind of onslaught on that day.

For the higher event, I tried the sp backhand chopping style as a test to see how I would do against the top rated players (2200-2300 usatt) there. I got 7, 7, 8 against the 2300 guy a d I think 8, 5, 7 against the next. My real goal was to find out if I could chop with sp at that level, without having trained it much, especially at the short game (coming from ox d.tecs). And surprisingly I did not lose many points due to outright misses from the sp chops. However, I cant say for sure if my sp returns were too low quality and led to finishing setups for the other players, or if lp would have helped me stay in it or not. Ox lp I know my returns are much more consistent, but more predictable.

All in all. I felt like the sp were fine for chopping against the heavy spun loops... if I was there! The positioning seems too exacting for me for not enough reward. Which means I will probably stick with a grippier ox lp or one with .6 sponge and focus on twiddling to introduce different spins. I won very few points attacking from the forehand side, however I was also using a 1.5mm chopping inverted rubber... forehand chops felt great as usual and not much difficulty in returning even the heaviest loops coming at me. Although, I would still consider going the thick sp forehand route like thomas bennborn and stick to only doing pushes chops and fh smashes when getting a high ball.

For whatever reason, the chopping did not bother me at all, physically. My pain now comes solely from the lateral movements, specifically moving side to side preparing for a loop. Which I do a lot of when ox lp blocking. And perhaps the twisting loop motion itself. So I guess it would depend if I want to be more like chtchetinine with thin, slow inverted (that he still hits with) or a quicker, thicker sp forehand like bennborn. Although their styles seem very close in terms of aggression levels.

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Bh: Not so spinny rubber...


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PostPosted: 22 Feb 2020, 00:13 
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Lorre, thanks for posting this blog. It has been interesting following your journey. I hope you do well now that you're back with LPs.

I tried SPs for a few months a while ago. I liked the increased control at the table and was eventually able to get OK control of chops against most opponents, but I felt like my out-of-position chop was totally gimped. To be frank, my serve return against certain higher level players also became much worse - I suppose I was leaning on the pips harder than I thought when receiving top/side to the BH. I was using 802 on the white sponge that is standard for the Mystery III packages (couldn't find the 'normal' orange sponge version anywhere).

I went back to P1r and I've been playing better for the last four months or so, but I miss being able to give real backspin against backspin or do anything interesting against dead balls. I've been working on staying low and having more proactive footwork, and it's definitely helped quite a bit. I've also been working on reducing the number of fishing shots I do on my forehand - against almost every opponent I seem to be better off attacking and FH chopping than fishing in most situations, and if I get stuck fishing it's because I'm the wrong distance from the table and/or standing too upright.

I'm going to give SPs/MPs one last hurrah. I'm going to try SSPC1 for short pips, and 755-2 on 1.5mm Tulpe very hard sponge for medium pips. I may also give Nittaku DO Knucle a try, though not right away. I will focus on SSPC1 initially. My goal here is to increase my variation and spin control while maintaining the ability to keep BH chops on the table.

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My blog: "Two rubbers, one racket"
Kill the game against long Pimps with Coach Li!

Currently experimenting with short pips: VKMO + Xiom Vega China VM + TSP Super Spinpips Chop 1 (1.5)


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PostPosted: 22 Feb 2020, 03:38 
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kaesees wrote:
Lorre, thanks for posting this blog. It has been interesting following your journey. I hope you do well now that you're back with LPs.

I tried SPs for a few months a while ago. I liked the increased control at the table and was eventually able to get OK control of chops against most opponents, but I felt like my out-of-position chop was totally gimped. To be frank, my serve return against certain higher level players also became much worse - I suppose I was leaning on the pips harder than I thought when receiving top/side to the BH. I was using 802 on the white sponge that is standard for the Mystery III packages (couldn't find the 'normal' orange sponge version anywhere).

I went back to P1r and I've been playing better for the last four months or so, but I miss being able to give real backspin against backspin or do anything interesting against dead balls. I've been working on staying low and having more proactive footwork, and it's definitely helped quite a bit. I've also been working on reducing the number of fishing shots I do on my forehand - against almost every opponent I seem to be better off attacking and FH chopping than fishing in most situations, and if I get stuck fishing it's because I'm the wrong distance from the table and/or standing too upright.

I'm going to give SPs/MPs one last hurrah. I'm going to try SSPC1 for short pips, and 755-2 on 1.5mm Tulpe very hard sponge for medium pips. I may also give Nittaku DO Knucle a try, though not right away. I will focus on SSPC1 initially. My goal here is to increase my variation and spin control while maintaining the ability to keep BH chops on the table.


For testing your capability potential... I would practice playing against a good looper. Do a drill where you can only push/chop, and the looper can push loop or slam but at random. So you must push until the person loops, seeing if you can get back in time to chop it properly. Having him hit to random spots and judging your speed, making you move in and out in addition to side to side.

Personally I don't think the SP are too difficult to chop with... provided you are in the right spot! To me it seems much more demanding on the footwork, once you go against good consistent loopers/pushers because they can hit you out far and immediately pull you back in close with a push. Then if you are too slow backing up, their loop will not be one you can chop and at best you'll end up blocking or hitting. And that pattern goes on point after point... loop/run back... push/run in... with LPs even if I'm not back in time or this or that, so long as I can get a paddle on the ball I have a good chance of returning it on the table at a fairly low height.

I was in a similar boat to you, getting fed up with the lack of effect and spin variations. Every LP return is basically the same. Even if you swing EXTRA hard... the spin differences are not that huge. And to create those differences, your technique needs to be quite exaggerated. Coupled with the fact that there are very few decent amateur choppers (2000+ rating even), I think twiddling is the best option if you don't want to be FH attack oriented.

I played some yesterday, and even though I won... they were not as enjoyable as once thought. My LP side, even using .9 sponge on one of the bats, was little more than a shield. I took on the mindset of "BE CONSISTENT" and focused on height and placement. Very minimal twiddling that session. Felt one dimensional and predictable, but... consistent. Make them move, and don't miss the table. It's actually not a bad strategy if I chose to leverage the forehand more. I made a point of not attacking just to see how the defense would hold up.

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SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...


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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2020, 02:57 
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Just had a quick 30 minute hit with my sheet of SSPC1 in 1.5. Feels vastly easier to control than 802 did on the same blade. A throw angle test shows it is more like halfway between LPs and inverted, whereas 802 was nearly identical to inverted in the same test.

In practice and some quick sets, chops were very easy to control so long as my racket velocity was high, but did rocket up a bit if I did a stroke similar to my under-pressure stroke with LPs; when under time pressure, either doing a short jerky chopping motion to produce a normal-ish chop or sort of matching racket velocity with the ball's rotation to produce a float ball that isn't a mile high worked OK. Obviously the speed matching is a little tricky against someone with a really spinny loop.

Pushing against pure backspin was intuitive, though against long spinny balls the rubber felt pretty bouncy.

Hitting against topspin was very intuitive. My practice partner said I was giving him light/medium topspin. Control was pretty easy.

Serve return seemed good though sidespin fooled me a few times. It's funny, I don't have much trouble returning side/under or side/top serves to my FH with the inverted, but I seem to have muscle memory to ignore the sidespin when returning with the backhand that obviously doesn't work with SPs. Although against side/under I could get away with just doing a wristy push that mostly touched the bottom of the ball where the rotational velocity on that axis is lower.

I'll switch back over to my own blog and stop filling up Lorre's now :V

_________________
Seeking joy and fitness in recreational modern defense.
My blog: "Two rubbers, one racket"
Kill the game against long Pimps with Coach Li!

Currently experimenting with short pips: VKMO + Xiom Vega China VM + TSP Super Spinpips Chop 1 (1.5)


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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2020, 05:44 
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kaesees wrote:
I'll switch back over to my own blog and stop filling up Lorre's now :V


Always welcome to share your stories here too.

I've been scheduling in my blog for a while now, but been too busy. Short version: been using my beloved P1-R for a while now and my level is getting to what it used to. After some cancellations on both ends I'm still having a TT date with Pipsy on March 3rd! :up: :lol:

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My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that


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