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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2021, 01:37 
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BRS wrote:

I'd really enjoy seeing you do the same drill but with your partner feeding the first backspin ball with his bh and then blocking the second ball. That would be realistic spin returned, and timing and everything.

Not saying that is necessarily a good way for you to be training it at this stage, only that it would be fascinating to see it done that way.

BRS wrote:

You are absolutely killing the backspin only feed. Is that really how you want to play a BH opener vs push? I mean, it's beautiful, don't let me bring you down. I'm only sort of curious about your training mentality. Like is this exercise designed to expand your range of power, so the point is exactly to murder an easy ball? Or if your goal is to take this work into match play, would it be better to have more spin and safety and give up some speed? That's kind of why I was interested in seeing the second drill with a block in between, because the ball would be on you again quite fast (and flat) at the speed you were playing it.


Good point. The way I'm hitting them here isn't realistic and I rarely do this in a match and I probably miss more than I get on the table. If I were to have these balls blocked back I'd probably be screwed - I'm not prepared for the next shot at all. I have done the drill you suggest a lot, but then as a serve, he pushes to my BH, I open to his BH and he blocks it back to my BH. Kind of doing that here, but multiball would be a better way to practice it


With the multiball vs backspin I was just trying to push the technique and go for it as much as possible to see what I could get away with, there are a few balls later in the video where I ease of the power a bit. I also just find it a lot of fun to blast these balls, so I find it difficult to hold back.. but for a safer shot it'd definitely be a good idea to go for more spin. I need to experiment a bit with it. It makes a big difference that I know where the ball is going of course, getting random pushes to the BH or FH makes the technique fall a part a bit and the arm-y stuff creeps in.

Next time I'll do what you suggest and see how safe I can go, with more spin. I'm also not sure on how to go about BH vs topspin or fast blocks. Intuitively I shorten everything and just hope for the best.


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2021, 01:53 
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That was entertaining. Too bad your partner struggled to block your opens a little bit.

To me it was interesting that you opened quite strong vs backspin with really high consistency (understood you knew the placement in advance, but still really good) then seemed to often play the fifth ball softer vs block than the open vs push. That's interesting.

My guess is in a game or a free drill you would play fifth ball with fh vs those blocks, so your bh isn't that practiced in the situation. It's probably a very useful pattern to practice if that is the case.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2021, 02:09 
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BRS wrote:
That was entertaining. Too bad your partner struggled to block your opens a little bit.

To me it was interesting that you opened quite strong vs backspin with really high consistency (understood you knew the placement in advance, but still really good) then seemed to often play the fifth ball softer vs block than the open vs push. That's interesting.

My guess is in a game or a free drill you would play fifth ball with fh vs those blocks, so your bh isn't that practiced in the situation. It's probably a very useful pattern to practice if that is the case.


I think I was trying to play that second backhand safe and just roll the ball on the table. Precisely because I have a tendency to want to go for max power all the time, I've done that a lot before when doing this drill. And I like to hit big backhands away from the table but I don't have the technique down for those safer spinnier backhands against fast balls. Ideally I'd want some of those dive backhands, I've been trying it out but I haven't figured it out yet.

And yes like you say, I do prefer to use my FH for those.. but a BH to deal with those balls would be really useful.


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2021, 03:40 
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Richfs wrote:
Here's my latest BH against backspin from yesterday evening:


I sent some footage to Brett a while ago and have been working on it a fair bit, here it definitely feels better than it ever has before.


Disclaimer: backhand vs backspin is sort of my bane. I do it well against a certain set of balls but it's a disaster if things get enough outside the norm (robot or feeding human) which happens a lot in a match.

So he's giving you a longer ball and you are coming over the top of it and ripping it - it looks neat, but you are consistently hitting the edge of the racket and going long, etc. He gave you a shorter one at like 20 seconds and there's just no way to make that shot if you aren't in perfect position.

What's the solution? Hit more of them? Go for a more open paddle and more spin less speed? Move your feet more (of course)?

I don't have the answer to become consistent with the backhand loop against various types of backspin. The forehand is a lot easier to do with the extra time you get.


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2021, 06:20 
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Quote:
Disclaimer: backhand vs backspin is sort of my bane. I do it well against a certain set of balls but it's a disaster if things get enough outside the norm (robot or feeding human) which happens a lot in a match.

So he's giving you a longer ball and you are coming over the top of it and ripping it - it looks neat, but you are consistently hitting the edge of the racket and going long, etc. He gave you a shorter one at like 20 seconds and there's just no way to make that shot if you aren't in perfect position.

What's the solution? Hit more of them? Go for a more open paddle and more spin less speed? Move your feet more (of course)?

I don't have the answer to become consistent with the backhand loop against various types of backspin. The forehand is a lot easier to do with the extra time you get.


Yes my problem too. Great in training but in matches????

Brett does not really agree with me on my latest research on this issue of muscle memory.

The research indicates that to achieve muscle memory you need to do 3 weeks of 4 training sessions per week practicing ONE stroke.

If you practice other strokes or matches this hinders attaining muscle memory for that stroke.
When practicing the one stroke you should continually evaluate your form while increasing difficulty.

I am going to try this method of training in July to see if I can transfer more form from training to matches. I will report back at the end of July.

The Chinese when young apparently do 3 months on one stroke.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _to_Tennis


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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2021, 17:22 
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i have been practicing FH counter-topspins since the end of January this year by doing this drill for around 5-10 minutes almost every training session. https://youtu.be/a1bJitLR8wo

In addition, I tried to do the stroke as much as possible in practice matches and recently in tournament matches as well. Encouraged that it's starting to show up in matches, e.g. i hit a few decent ones in some matches yesterday. However, the improvements in my BH (during matchplay) have been rather marginal (maybe non-existent?) although i practiced BH dives a lot. in matches, i still revert to BH counterhits using the arm too much. maybe it's a mental thing, i.e. committing to playing dive topspins in matches might improve this? (like i did for playing FH counter-topspins)

here are two matches:

https://youtu.be/ACq7LByfqB0 (against a slightly higher ranked player)

https://youtu.be/UN4Vx2PZDE0 (against a lower ranked player)

i played one match against Kuboki-san in April in lost 2:3. when he served no-spin to my BH i most of the time pivoted and played a FH topspin, which often went long. this time, i tried to receive with my BH, but it didn't help because it often gave him an easy 3rd ball.

comments and suggestions welcome, especially how to receive no-spin serves better.


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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2021, 17:29 
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chopblock wrote:
In addition, I tried to do the stroke as much as possible in practice matches and recently in tournament matches as well. Encouraged that it's starting to show up in matches, e.g. i hit a few decent ones in some matches yesterday. However, the improvements in my BH (during matchplay) have been rather marginal (maybe non-existent?) although i practiced BH dives a lot. in matches, i still revert to BH counterhits using the arm too much. maybe it's a mental thing, i.e. committing to playing dive topspins in matches might improve this? (like i did for playing FH counter-topspins)


I think you are right about committing. To me, it seems that you are often very cautious. I think it is important to not be afraid to miss and go with a full-body motion. At first, you will probably miss more and even lose to players you could comfortably beat before, but in the long run it should lead to improvement. Just my 50 cents.

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2021, 08:33 
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Dr.Pivot wrote:
chopblock wrote:
In addition, I tried to do the stroke as much as possible in practice matches and recently in tournament matches as well. Encouraged that it's starting to show up in matches, e.g. i hit a few decent ones in some matches yesterday. However, the improvements in my BH (during matchplay) have been rather marginal (maybe non-existent?) although i practiced BH dives a lot. in matches, i still revert to BH counterhits using the arm too much. maybe it's a mental thing, i.e. committing to playing dive topspins in matches might improve this? (like i did for playing FH counter-topspins)


I think you are right about committing. To me, it seems that you are often very cautious. I think it is important to not be afraid to miss and go with a full-body motion. At first, you will probably miss more and even lose to players you could comfortably beat before, but in the long run it should lead to improvement. Just my 50 cents.


Thanks. I'll try that for the next few months and see how it goes.


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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2021, 15:17 
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True or false: if somebody serves long sidespin serve at you (especially sidespin-topspin) it is best to hit a sidespin loop, but not straight?

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PostPosted: 18 Jun 2021, 21:18 
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Dr.Pivot wrote:
True or false: if somebody serves long sidespin serve at you (especially sidespin-topspin) it is best to hit a sidespin loop, but not straight?


I thought the std advice was to ignore their sidespin and powerloop straight over it.

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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2021, 00:36 
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BRS wrote:
Dr.Pivot wrote:
True or false: if somebody serves long sidespin serve at you (especially sidespin-topspin) it is best to hit a sidespin loop, but not straight?


I thought the std advice was to ignore their sidespin and powerloop straight over it.


If I try to loop it straight, I almost always hit it flat and the ball goes long. If I play against the sidespin, I can maintain a brushy contact and actually spin the ball. So if a rightie serves pendulum serve to my forehand, I have to hook, and I have to fade slightly against the reverse. Maybe it is just a consequence of my poor technique, I don't know.

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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2021, 06:54 
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If you have a robot, just try and see what works. Ultimately, your brain will make the adjustments if it can without thinking about it. If you have to make the adjustments too consciously, it will struggle to take in real time. But yes, while the stroke will feel the same, there are swing path and contact point adjustments you make for sidespin.

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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2021, 06:55 
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Dr.Pivot wrote:
True or false: if somebody serves long sidespin serve at you (especially sidespin-topspin) it is best to hit a sidespin loop, but not straight?

http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/node/80

That is one school of thought.

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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2021, 21:24 
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I played for the first time in 16 months! Wednesday and last night, here in scenic Huntsville, Alabama. It's community center league so all matches after a little warmup. And boy do I suck at pingpong now. I top-edged 4 or 5 balls every game the first night because I was looking equally at everything. So my first goal is to watch the ball. Until I do that the rest isn't going to matter too much.

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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 16:19 
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After I played my first tournament after 9 months, I wanted to quit sport right away.

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