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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2021, 20:42 
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Dr.Pivot wrote:
Yes, he is an officer at the local Technique Police Department. BTW, he never says that I have to shorten it for the sake of recovery. His idea is that if the ball has a lot of spin, it is very likely to bounce off the table in an unpredictable way. For example, it could have some residual sidespin, a player underestimated the amount of topspin, or the ball itself is not round, whatever. So if you swing big, it will be more difficult to adapt to "something going wrong." But if you delay the swing until the very last moment and make it very short, you are more likely to adapt to an unpredictable bounce. It probably works for him, but I could never make it work, even when I consciously tried to implement this idea.


His advice has some validity.

For example, if someone did the slowest and spinniest loop of all time, I'd strongly suggest a shorter swing with a very delayed backswing.

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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2021, 20:44 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
What do I think of Ma Long's elbow position? It all obviously works or else he wouldn't win all the matches. It's a bit of a pumping action, which I don't teach by default. I like this more stable elbow position https://youtu.be/_WdChUBhWfo?t=159 as it is less complicated and more teachable.

The biggest issues on bh happens when the elbow is changing altitude too much, as I mentioned above. Back and forward isn't as deadly as up and down, if that makes sense?


By issues, do you mean that a more stable elbow position leads to better consistency?

Here is my backhand from 2 years ago. Is the elbow position better there?


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2021, 21:15 
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Dr.Pivot wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
What do I think of Ma Long's elbow position? It all obviously works or else he wouldn't win all the matches. It's a bit of a pumping action, which I don't teach by default. I like this more stable elbow position https://youtu.be/_WdChUBhWfo?t=159 as it is less complicated and more teachable.

The biggest issues on bh happens when the elbow is changing altitude too much, as I mentioned above. Back and forward isn't as deadly as up and down, if that makes sense?


By issues, do you mean that a more stable elbow position leads to better consistency?

Here is my backhand from 2 years ago. Is the elbow position better there?



Yes, it was a lot better there.

Your body movement is better today.

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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2021, 22:23 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Dr.Pivot wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
What do I think of Ma Long's elbow position? It all obviously works or else he wouldn't win all the matches. It's a bit of a pumping action, which I don't teach by default. I like this more stable elbow position https://youtu.be/_WdChUBhWfo?t=159 as it is less complicated and more teachable.

The biggest issues on bh happens when the elbow is changing altitude too much, as I mentioned above. Back and forward isn't as deadly as up and down, if that makes sense?


By issues, do you mean that a more stable elbow position leads to better consistency?

Here is my backhand from 2 years ago. Is the elbow position better there?



Yes, it was a lot better there.

Your body movement is better today.


Okay, now I have to combine these two into a hybrid stroke somehow.

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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 09:58 
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Surely Maurice won't just watch this all day?

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Forehand Topspin Vs Block.gif
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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 10:01 
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Or this?

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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 10:04 
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Okay, this one is a little addictive

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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2021, 22:04 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Let's start with the serve. You are only allowed to start the backswing when you are stepping down and forward with your right leg.

The above serve advice doesn't count if someone has a circular serve pattern like Ma Long though these players still need to have some part of the circle going against their forward step.

Now the forehand topspin. When you swing early, the racket stops at the back end and it doesn't work as well, regardless of how well you use your body. Using the body well is essential though it doesn't help that much if the swing isn't sequential enough. If the backswing leads the body, it doesn't help at all, I'm guessing.

The body movements for backhand are described fairly well in the ttEDGE 2021 series. I'd watch those again.

If I were you Rich, I'd send me short videos of your training for feedback.

As for your friends telling your to topspin to the opponent's backhand...that's pretty bad. At a certain level, this is rarely good advice. It's especially true if the opponent sets up for backhand block before you even hit the ball.


Thanks Brett. I will record some clips soon. My team and I went to England for a tournament over the weekend, great experience and showed my backhand weakness again. I barely hit a backhand the entire weekend. I've become a bit obsessed about the details in the BH and I see many players hit different types of backhands and I'm confused on what to copy, when back at training I will try to keep it a bit more simple.

When I try to do the body movement on the serve I also feel rushed as if I don't have the time to do the backswing when I step forward and therefore I do it too early/don't feel like my body is powering the swing.


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PostPosted: 23 Sep 2021, 01:38 
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Richfs wrote:
NextLevel wrote:

A lot of people have said great things already. The biggest thing that stood out for me is that you didn't lose any points to the short serve double bouncing and I suspect that some of them would have come long. Don't injure yourself but you probably should practice against the racket-breaking half long balls on both forehand backhand but especially on forehand, because you did a great job when you hit the forehand opener. One of the benefits of this is that while you don't get that lovely short push, you do get to see whether an opponent really serves backspin and some of those topspin serves you popped up would have come long into your strike zone.

For your backhand, I think you tried to contact the ball too squarely on the openers vs backspin. Even with all the issues you had with mechanics, you could have just added some off center contact and made some of those shots with sidespin into the forehand. You should probably practice some chiquita or the over-the-table backhand loop if you can, it isn't entirely necessary but it will give you a different understanding of the backhand for sure.


Thanks NL, good points. Definitely could've gotten in more on those serves.

By too squarely I'm guessing you mean too much in the center of the bat? And that I should try contacting more towards the tip of the bat? I want to improve my BH flick, I used to do it a lot - even if it was very arm oriented. Now I'm not quite sure how to execute it even after having watched many videos on it, but that contact point tip could be a way forward with it.


For the backhand opener, I would say in practice, open to multiple points on the table in drills but sometimes try to open to break the sideline or hit the corner with the backhand and see what it takes. Also serve to multiple points on the table and get pushes or returns from multiple points on the table. I suspect partly because your practice partner is a lefty and you are often doing fluid drills that you might not get enough of this. But I find that the most annoying points for lefty vs righty is to hit the wide forehand and backhand with the wide forehand greatly underestimated. I suspect though I could be wrong that the way this push came to you that you felt most comfortable trying to open down the line and that is probably a practice limitation. I could be wrong though. But if you aimed the ball to different points on the table off the push, you would get what I meant about contact point more easily. For me it is easier to return wide a push that comes to backhand from a down the line return. But looking at where your shots ended up, I felt you were opening to his backhand rather than open to his forehand which might have been an easier shot.

For the over the table backhand, getting in early was something I never really mastered but that might be easier for you. But the shot itself has a strong frisbee throwing element. In the absence of video (I would say just send whatever you to do Brett for feedback), that is the best I can say.

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2021, 15:01 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Okay, this one is a little addictive

Attachment:
One One.gif


Maybe you should play around with the handedness of the figures? Most people aren't righties looping to lefties....

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2021, 16:42 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Dr.Pivot wrote:
Yes, he is an officer at the local Technique Police Department. BTW, he never says that I have to shorten it for the sake of recovery. His idea is that if the ball has a lot of spin, it is very likely to bounce off the table in an unpredictable way. For example, it could have some residual sidespin, a player underestimated the amount of topspin, or the ball itself is not round, whatever. So if you swing big, it will be more difficult to adapt to "something going wrong." But if you delay the swing until the very last moment and make it very short, you are more likely to adapt to an unpredictable bounce. It probably works for him, but I could never make it work, even when I consciously tried to implement this idea.


His advice has some validity.

For example, if someone did the slowest and spinniest loop of all time, I'd strongly suggest a shorter swing with a very delayed backswing.


Yeah, it would probably have helped me if I could read the spin. But right now I just blindly swing as wide as I can and hope that the point does not get beyond 2 shots.

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PostPosted: 25 Sep 2021, 03:35 
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Giving the over the table backhand some thought and I might be able to do better than just talking about a frisbee element when describing the stroke itself.

Like when you throw the frisbee, your wrist is pointing towards the opponent when you start the stroke. Then you swing in a circle with a momentum that ends up coming back towards you. Almost as if you are doing a Butterfly stroke in some ways.

Okay maybe I made it worse...

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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2021, 10:22 
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This weekend I played in a usatt tournament for the first time since June 2019. I recorded one match, with a cameo appearance by my bench coach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWKzPckYxuA

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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2021, 14:32 
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BRS wrote:
This weekend I played in a usatt tournament for the first time since June 2019. I recorded one match, with a cameo appearance by my bench coach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWKzPckYxuA


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

It's a little irrational how much I actually enjoyed this match. Ben/BRS is playing really nice tt these days.

Ben, your forehand pivot still needs some work, imo. Here's a free video for everyone to watch re forehand pivot https://vimeo.com/504644665/22c8fefebc Ben is currently just jumping backwards instead and it's costing points.

I believe that Ben's best service action right now is this tomahawk https://youtu.be/aWKzPckYxuA?t=38 Does anyone care to guess why I believe it's his best/most correct serve?

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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2021, 14:43 
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Attachment:
Forehand Topspin against Block Left.gif
Forehand Topspin against Block Left.gif [ 538.22 KiB | Viewed 390 times ]
NextLevel wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Okay, this one is a little addictive

Attachment:
The attachment One One.gif is no longer available


Maybe you should play around with the handedness of the figures? Most people aren't righties looping to lefties....


Okay Laj, I always grant wishes...

Attachment:
Forehand Topspin against Block Left.gif
Forehand Topspin against Block Left.gif [ 538.22 KiB | Viewed 390 times ]

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