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Match 1, Div 3. Reb vs Speedplay
Poll ended at 20 Sep 2010, 01:20
Reb 48%  48%  [ 14 ]
Speedplay 52%  52%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 29
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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 12:16 
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Yes I agree. I far as I know, the point of this thread is not to determine who is the better player, Reb or Speedplay, but who is the better talker and who's better at convincing others that they are the better player.

Of course we already know who is the better player 8) :lol:

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 13:05 
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haggisv wrote:
Of course we already know who is the better player 8) :lol:


Please share Haggisv you :devil: !!! :lol: :lol:

Nah its OK, I know its me!! :D :D :D

I'd automatically deserve to lose this game if I didn't think this! :lol: After all, how can I expect others to vote for me if I don't believe it myself. And that's just what we must think every time we stand at the end of the table....right!! ;)

Speaking of voting, has anyone noticed I've caught up with Speedplay? Thanks to all who have voted for me so far, if there are any new voters out there, or any swinging ones, clicking the Reb button will give you a good feeling! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 16:33 
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I am a swing voter. All Speedplay need to do is discard all humility, and show me his best talk :P Otherwise, I will stick by Reb ;) By the way, when is last final voting day?

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 19:00 
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Public opinion is swinging like a yoyo... somehow I doubt this is still related to who claims to be the better player... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 21:16 
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While I agree that the overall level of play in North America is significantly lower than Europe or Asia, your choice of words could have been better.

I wouldn't classify a 1500-2000 player who has decades of experience as an "advanced beginner."

Here's how I'd break it down:

0-1000: Beginner
1000-1500 Lower Level Player
1500-2000 Intermediate Level Player
2000-2500 Upper Level Player
2500+ Elite Level Player

That said, I don't think we have any homegrown USATT talent good enough to play in the top Euro men's leagues, so realistically our top young players would at best belong in a third or more likely fourth level league in Germany, not sure how that compares to Sweden.

Of our top five, four are over 40 and one's a woman. We have 31 men rated over 2500, and we saw how that level compares to Waldner at SPiN NYC (not good). The one source of pride for USATT players is Gao Jun, who even at 40 is a better player than any women in Sweden. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 21:55 
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speedplay wrote:
This is all about where se set the bar, I'm not claiming to be better then those rated ~2000, all I'm sayi´ng is that it's not a level that is good enough to impress me. Perhaps I'm being harsh towards my self and other's of similar ability, but that is the way I see it.

2000 seems to be about the magic number. Players below 2000 generally have one or more serious weaknesses. Players above 2000 are stronger with a more solid overall game.

That said, I saw a recent game on YouTube between our #12 (2573) vs #21 (2552) rated players. Maybe it was just a bad style matchup, but these guys had so many errors it was embarrassing. Generally very ugly points. TT in this country has a long way to go.


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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 23:38 
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speedplay wrote:
It's obvious that it's no longer about the worser (or MOST crappy) player, cause if it was, I would be ahead by a mile :devil:

Not only do I come from the much stronger smelling TT-nation Sweden, I've also proved my lack of skill by moving away from pips and going to Anti, which we all know is used to cover up a weakness. Since I don't have any skill, I don't need pips, but I would for sure try to hide my weaknessess from the superior skill Reb flaunts behind his pips :rock:

Now, as if all this was enough to give me the votes, we have a tread here some where about age and fitness affecting our ability to move/play. Well, I'm both younger and fitter then Reb, yet still not as good looking or as skilled :D


Wow Speedplay, there's a whole lof of humility there!! Looks like I'll be keeping Choi's vote!! :lol: :lol:

Reading between the lines (or maybe on the lines :lol: ) here I'd almost say you'd thrown in the towel!! :devil: :devil: :devil: :P

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2010, 00:35 
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LOLROFLMAOITLMAOLOL, there is more smack talk in this thread than in any random 6 month perdiod between me and Speedplay. Way to go for bringing the energy. I sure hope Speedplay has a LARGE supply if tissue when we meetup and play. One box might not be enough, unless he poisons my food or drink.

As for this thread departing from debate about skill, it NEVER was about skill in the first place - only about what it takes to convince someone to check one of the two blocks - period. I checked my block and stand by it, even if Speedplay is one of my longest standing friends on the TT forums. He seems to want to hear that often and I am not one of those sensitive dudes who say that crap often.

Keep this one rolling. you are all making me roll over laughing at length.

Lack of numerous vids from either player make this smackdown faceoff even more intruiging.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2010, 05:26 
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@MNNB: That video was very sad. I have watched 2200/2300s who had a far more solid game than those two players. I am certain that we will never have players that can compare to the quality of German players but we certainly do have players of higher quality than in that video.

@This whole USATT banter, the point of the USATT rating system is that it is for players who live and compete in the US. Any person can come over and do well in 1 tournament and gain a high rating. However, this tends to equalize out after they have played in several tournaments. For instance, a regional league player from Germany came down and played in a tournament. The player instantly gained a rating of 2000, though he barely beat me in the 5 game set we had...xD Anyways, the next tournament he played in, there were several players ranked between 1900-2000. They beat him senselessly and his rating went down to about 1900 where he belonged.

The first time a player is rated in the USATT system, it is very easy to become overrated. This is because they take the lowest-rated person you lost to and the highest-rated person you beat added together and then divided by two. So lets say you barely beat an 1800 rated player, meaning your rating is around 1800. If you don't lose to anyone rated under 1800, but the lowest rated person you lose to is 2300, then you will be rated a 2050. However, when you compete in the next tournament, you will lose major points if your skill level is not enough to compete with the 1900s and 2000s you will be playing against. The first rating is only a best guess of what your rating could be. It in no way means that you are what you are rated until you have proven it.

@Speedplay: If Def is playing div 6 right now, are we ignoring the fact that within time he will rise in divisions? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can only rise in 1 division per season right? Even if a player is skilled enough to start in div3, he still must rise in the ranks according to the way you guys do leagues.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2010, 05:47 
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A lot of tournaments do not allow unrated players to compete in the final round. As such, your friend probably won his table and then received a rating based on the players he was able to compete with. I am curious over how long a period of time it took him to become 2550. Was he progressively getting better or do you think he was a 2550 from the start just waiting for his chance? He could have easily gone to a 4-star tournament and became a 2550 overnight if he had the skill from the start.

Thanks for the insight into the league system. I would love to play in a league system of another country some day...

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2010, 11:10 
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PipP you make some very good points about Def-Attack. I'd say he is a natural iirc he has only been playing TT for about 6 months. I'd think he would rise quickly, but it seems the system may hold him back if his teammates are far weaker than he is. Which could see his game stagnate if he doesn't get enough good competition. Now I did qualify my statements in his video thread that it is always difficult to tell level from video, but I stand by my statement that he could be as high as the levels I touted in my club. I also stand by my statements as to the level Speedplays opponents seem to be playing at (still with the video perception qualification). This to me says that Def-Attack is probably better in 6 months than Speedplay has achieved in over 4 years. This is borne out by Speedplay being impressed by Def-Attacks video himself. Now if you know Speedplay, he is never impressed by anything less than about Pro level. So that would suggest Speedplay's actual level is way, way below that of Def-Attack. And probably in fact the guys in the vid Speedplay showed of his opponents are far better than Speedplay as well, but were carefully selected from his league to make Speedplay look as good as he possibly could. :P :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gees, the crap we will write to try and get some votes in this game. What idiot suggested we play such a BS-producing game? :oops: Oh, wait, er.....Oops, I mean, who was the brilliant guy that thought up such a thought provoking and challenging way to mince words with each other. Oh yeah that's right I remember now...that would be ME :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2010, 11:15 
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Bob, I'd agree with your estimation of the levels and that a difference in skill really comes in when 2000 hits. And that first initial rating, I've seen people both get ratings way too high and way too low because of the events they played in. I once played a guy who was rated around 2000 who had the skills of someone more like a 1200 player. What I came to find later is that he only played one event at his first tournament, lost to a couple of 2100-2200 players and got an initial rating of around 2000.

The moral of the story is, if you want a really high rating, play the highest rated event you can for your initial tournament. Even if you lose every match you're likely to get a high rating. But that really does you no good in the long run.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2010, 11:39 
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speedplay wrote:
No, it's not about a new rubber, but I thought I would tell you what happened tonight during practice. A former player, used to play in the second highest league here in Sweden, came down to practice with us. It was great fun and even though he destroyed me, while being more even with the other guys done there, it was still fun.

I asked him how come he had such an easy time beating me, when he struggled with the other's, who I actually beat most of the time. He smiled and said that I should always have a hard time against him, as he was raised playing against defenders, back in the days before the 2 color rule and he had always loved to play against def.

So,we continued to talk and he revealed that when he played before, he used to use LP him self (Butterfly Feint, not Feint long... Never heard of them, but I suppose they are LP?) and he brought out his bat with Feint a played a set with it, before he put it back in the bag and continued to use his double inverted set up.

I asked him why he didn't use his LP, and guess what his answer was?

I'm still not good enough to use LP!

Now, since we all have heard the claims that people use LP to hide a weakness, I though this was interesting, he actually wanted to practice more before he felt he was ready to use LP again!

Now, Reb, this doesn't change anything between us ;)


Just in case anyone missed this in the LP section, I had to re-quote it here. What a joy it was to read this and it really must encourage you to change your vote to me....surely?? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2010, 17:45 
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We must have got boring Speedplay, we haven't pulled in any new voters for a while :lol: :lol:

Now as for your impression on opponents. I believe your claims of what your opponents have said. I have no reason that you would make them up. What I don't know is how you play now. While the video you've seen of me wouldn't look all that different now, even though my shots are a lot more accurate, spin varies more and there is more attack, I'm not sure that would come across in video. Of course, the opponent does have some impact on this too. It sounds like your game style has changed since your last vid we saw, although your description of running around like the energiser bunny still draws up a similar mental picture to that last vid. However, I know you had LP and not Anti on your bat back then. So a new vid may change the mental picture or it may not. And still, even if we both posted a vid of the best looking game we could manage to play, it still may not get us much further along in our level assessment of one another. However, I'd still like to see a new vid of you. ;)

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S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2010, 01:54 
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speedplay wrote:
Any way, for those who vote for me, I have some nice rubbers stuffed away in a drawer, might as well send them out to you guys :devil:


Hell, I might change my vote to you in that case! :lol: I'll take one of those best anti's to try thanks. :P

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S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.


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