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Should you give away a point when leading 10-0?
Yes definitely 10%  10%  [ 4 ]
No certainly not 18%  18%  [ 7 ]
Depends on the opponent or the situation 72%  72%  [ 28 ]
Total votes : 39
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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2013, 16:11 
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The EJ's Boogyman
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Last week at Coburg, BB and Craig C (club champ) played an informal best of 5 doubles match against 2 of our keener older players (low intermediate level). The first 2 games were 11-0, 11-0. Everyone knew each other and there was lots of ribbing and banter going on. The lower level players were having fun and enjoying the match - no one got disheartened or offended.

On the same night top player Trent C had been training hard (very hard!) for the Australian Top 10. He was pretty spent but when BB rocked up they had a game and BB won 11-0! (even though Trent was tired he aint easy to beat at all, let alone 11-0) Anyway, again more ribbing and good humoured banter and everyone was laughing.

Thus, I still think it depends on the situation and how well you know your opponents. Beating or losing to someone 11-0 can actually be funny if taken in the right spirit.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2013, 16:52 
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I don't see why people get hung up on this, when playing in competition I don't give any points away for free (at least not intentionally ;) ) and I wouldn't expect anyone else to do the same. I don't need pity points, it won't make me feel like I accomplished anything greater if I get 1 point instead of Zero. Also, if I was playing a practice match, the score-line isn't important, so if someone doesn't give me a point at 10-0 then it surely doesn't matter one bit. If anyone is going to take offence to being beaten 11-0 and would expect a point, then it is probably more a sign of them being a bad sport.

The only time this would come into play for me is when playing new/developing players, but still I would feed them throughout the match rather than just throwing them a point at 10-0. Just as encouragement so they can play their strengths and make some good shots to get some points.

Just wondering, are there any other sports where this comes up?

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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2013, 18:41 
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There's always a risk that people get offended when you DON'T give them the point... :( :( :(

Just like when you get a net or edge, people are expected to at least acknowledge that there was some luck involved... if you don't people can get annoyed. I'm sure this unwritten rule is much stronger than giving away a point at 10-0 though, and I think a lot more people know (or get taught) about nets & edges acknowledgement too.

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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2013, 19:06 
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I'm guessing the attitudes towards this 11-0 business differs from club to club, and country to country. Aside from the obligatory dropping of the dacks it has never really been anything that has come up before with me. I'm sure at my club if someone beat someone 11-0 in pennant (for eg) no one would bat an eyelid (although the loser may get gently teased!). It's just not part of the acknowledged etiquette.

I think not humiliating people or turning them off the game is something which should just come down to common decency and doesn't need any established rules of etiquette. If you suspect that beating someone 11-0 will upset that person (eg a young junior or a beginner) then of course give them a few points.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2013, 05:37 
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To be honest I have only noticed this 10-0 in the last 3-4 years, i think that it is more of a copycat thing that players have seen on youtube the same as like serving like Wang Liqin and Ma long
the first time U saw it here in NZ was when I was sitting with a young boys father, the young fella was up 10=0 and I said to his father will he crush his opponent, the father said "no J is a good boy he knows what to do" and then J did 2 fault serves

I was loosing one match 10-0 recently and my opposition gave me a point so I gave him one, To me 11-0 or 11-1 who cares
I may bounce the serve up if playing a social player for them to attack but generally I wouldn't give someone a point in a competition just in-case lol

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2013, 06:43 
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When I see people give that point away, I see it as respectful and kind, not condescending....

I wouldn't be insulted either way, really.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2013, 08:55 
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haggisv wrote:
There's always a risk that people get offended when you DON'T give them the point... :( :( :(

Just like when you get a net or edge, people are expected to at least acknowledge that there was some luck involved... if you don't people can get annoyed. I'm sure this unwritten rule is much stronger than giving away a point at 10-0 though, and I think a lot more people know (or get taught) about nets & edges acknowledgement too.


Hopefully I don't offend anyone saying this, but I think if anyone gets offended by not being given a point at 10-0, then they are the problem and are just being soft, you can't play a competitive sport and expect people to give you anything. If it's going to put them off from playing more table tennis, then chances are they would have ended up quitting for another reason.

It is a very different situation to getting a net or edge, which generally give you an advantage in the point for something that is straight up dumb luck (I haven't met anyone yet that can consistently use them to their advantage). I totally agree with acknowledging it when you get one, although I have had tougher games where I have stopped doing this just to see if it rattles my opponent. :P But obviously anyone playing at a reasonable level should know it is just part of them game and not let it phase them.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2013, 16:46 
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I ask myself, do I mind losing 11-0? And the answer would be yes. So I would always give 1 point if I lead 10-0. I feel grateful to the person who would show me compassion so I would do favor to others too.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2013, 17:39 
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I played a HIGHLY under-rated junior in a USATT tournament a few years back and I wasn't worried so much about losing 0-11...I was worried about losing 0-33! I managed a couple of nets and edges and got a total of 3 pts for the entire match if I remember correctly.

The only other time I was so out-matched was in our club's annual handicap tournament. I got through a couple of rounds and wound up against the best player in the club. It was one-game to 41 pts and I had a handicap of 35 pts. All I needed was 6 points to win...alas I went down 41-40. :lol:

But he got his comeuppance! By the end of the night he made it to the finals against a young girl who had a handicap that night of 39 points! She only needed two points to win! And she did!

BTW, these handicap events are quite fun for everyone no matter the playing level.

 

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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2013, 17:10 
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Interesting topic :)

Here's my simplistic view on things:
1) I would not give a free point to someone I know quite good, because then I would loose the chance to make fun of them :D
2) If I am playing vs new or developing player that looks "fragile" or not "competitive" I would give up the point somewhere along the way before 10-0
3) If I got to 10-0 vs a good player that I'm not very familiar with I would "sort of" give a point.. Meaning I would serve very weak service and play next point in easy mode that way if opponent does not like "charity" can always miss on his own or if he wants to get a point he has a good chance to outplay me.

p.s. what kind of "juniors" are you guys playing against if you can give them a free point?? It sounds so strange to me.. Here in Lithuania juniors are quite good.. For example few days just a barely 13 year old kid won Lithuanian Junior Championship..

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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2013, 23:01 
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Justas wrote:
p.s. what kind of "juniors" are you guys playing against if you can give them a free point?? It sounds so strange to me.. Here in Lithuania juniors are quite good.. For example few days just a barely 13 year old kid won Lithuanian Junior Championship..


There are a vast range of junior abilities around everywhere Justas I'm sure....very well developed skills vs just starting and everything in between. Even where you are there must be juniors just starting....or are they born as great players in Lithuania? :P :lol:

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2013, 07:28 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Justas wrote:
p.s. what kind of "juniors" are you guys playing against if you can give them a free point?? It sounds so strange to me.. Here in Lithuania juniors are quite good.. For example few days just a barely 13 year old kid won Lithuanian Junior Championship..


There are a vast range of junior abilities around everywhere Justas I'm sure....very well developed skills vs just starting and everything in between. Even where you are there must be juniors just starting....or are they born as great players in Lithuania? :P :lol:


That's the thing Reb, I haven't seen a junior kid that has just started paying table tennis for ages.. There are only 2 explanations:
1) Mostly it is kids (like 6-8 years old) who start training
2) If I played in some lower league and had to play teams from little cities, maybe I would see someone, but at higher leagues all juniors have quite good standard (meaning 10-0 is very very unlikely)

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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2013, 23:28 
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I answered it depends, because it does for me.
Scenario:
1. informal club play-usually will give a point away
2. formal club play (league)-if it is a player i know well AND i know they can beat me i do not give a point away. Indeed I have both WON and LOST matches where I won or lost the first game 11-0 or 0-11. If I know I will win the match from experience I will give away a point.
3. tournament play-I usually do NOT know the opponent at all-so i will give a point away ONLY if I am 100% sure I will not lose a match.

If I do give a point away to an opponent that I know I will beat i do not wait till 10-0. I prefer early on. For me giving away a point by serving into the net is a little disrespectful. I prefer to lose a point by trying a spectacular shot. I miss enough of those that its not a problem giving the point away.


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PostPosted: 16 Apr 2013, 13:34 
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From Jeff D's Croydon pennant wrap up - an amusing report concerning the 11-0 pants-down-run rule:

"CDTTA LACK OF INTEGRITY GRADE
Even Tiger Woods copped a 2 shot penalty at the US Masters because he broke the rules. Playing to rules is a very important and integral part of completion. Last night two similar instances occurred with one showing real leadership, dedication and self sacrifice, the other petulance, distain for rules, and a self serving and selfish attitude that threatens to bring the game into disrepute. On table 18 when fine upstanding competitor Ian, lost 11-0 to our ruthless Mr Berry, there was Ian doing the pants down run around the table showing the world his pale blue lycra undies and showing himself to be a mans man. However on table 20 a competitor who will remain nameless was seen cowering at the end of the game with not even a thought of any pants down lap of the table. Was he trying to hide something? Maybe leopard skin underwear or pink frilly underwear or even an undersized G banger. It doesn’t matter, “RULES ARE RULES” Rod."

(btw: Rod=Rod K)

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PostPosted: 16 Apr 2013, 14:38 
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Haha.. yeah, I saw that report cm.. and had a good giggle!

My first match last night in Shepp's opening A grade pennant... and I was leading 10-0 in the very first game...
I purposely went for a big b/h down the line and over hit it by about a foot. Intentional? Yes.. but I didn't let on. Against a weaker player, I would have given them a big grin... but decided to keep a poker face as this bloke is a pretty handy no.1 and he wasn't happy, trying to get used to a new bat...


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