OOAK Table Tennis Forum

No. I think you should approach both passive returns and loops with the same patience and I think you may be overdoing the active return and using too much arm and less body. I had a student who got excited whenever he attacked a ball and I kept trying to get him to relax and approach all balls with a sense of procedural calm. I mostly failed, but I think you can improve your anticipation of the ball over time. It goes back to whether your initial failings are part of attempting a new skill or your initial failings mean you have a bad skill. Too often. We amateurs confuse the former (a natural thing) with the latter (a debilitating belief). If you use the same footwork for both the passive and active returns, you should get into position with options. You can take the ball later on both though it is arguably easier to take the ball later passively if the ball doesn't go long.

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One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Also, do people in general find reverse sidespin more difficult to return, at least on amateur level? I struggle a lot against backhand-like serves. While against pendulum-like sidespin I feel much more confident, I make way fewer errors and can even afford to cover most (if not the whole) of the table with my FH. I guess it was just because in the US I trained with the guys who relied on pendulum like sidespin. It just works automatically somehow. Against reverse sidespin I cannot pivot and my BH is erratic. I am working on it more or less regularly, but it still sucks.

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Tactics Enthusiast

I think you usually fade the ball on your backhand and that is easier to use against pendulum but harder to use against reverse pendulum unless you deliberately try to trap the sidespin. You have to continue to deliberately aim towards the middle of the table or use your swing trajectory to adjust for the sidespin. If you practice enough against a variety of serves, the brain adjusts faster. Against sidespin serves, I train students to try to compensate for the sidespin first.

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One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Would this one be "The Nigerian Serve"? https://youtu.be/5c33-R-lRvg?t=727
I think Quadri also serves like that.

Looking at that serve - at first glance it seems rather stiff (in the wrist and forearm), yet he's able to put enough variation in the spin that it fools the opponent sometimes. At my level I probably can't see a lot of what's going on, though.

Iskandar

I now seek to be able to finish balls like this:
https://youtu.be/tFcm7qJzvD4?t=149

Not easy. Even against even much higher balls than that.

I've just realized that I completely disregarded sidespin so far when trying to loop long serves. I somehow figured out intuitively that I have to hook pendulum-like sidespin with my forehand, my natural tendency to hook a bit also helps. In all other situations I either ignored sidespin (just pretending it is pure top- or backspin) or did the opposite of the correct movement, that is why my returns against the reverse sidespin suck.

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Tactics Enthusiast

LTT120 is now available on ttEDGE.com

This is a conversation I have with many players, including the elite. Keeping the racket high or above the height of the table is a new thing in table tennis and it has some merit. LTT120 is my take on the topic.

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That is certainly a Nigerian serve but I don't think it's the best one.

Let's say that the racket should move on the path of the pic below. How should the body behave?

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The body should go down and then up?

Yeah, it's an inverted windmill...in a way.

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I am trying to imagine and it is beyond my limits...

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Seems to me that you've heard this topic a lot lately and wanted to express some opinions on it. Interesting. I feel like the bat above the table works along side the elbow out to the side instruction in (much older) previous videos.

I doubt I'll ever get my knee close to my ankle height in a match, but I will strive for that.

Also, DTTS07. The Introductory Footwork Drill. What do you think of that video now? Just watching it, after the recent leg videos I was thinking it was not optimal but after reading the title of the video, I'm OK with it. I'm wondering if it needs a little disclaimer that says "this is an intro and this is not the final result or perfect form". For some reason I'm just so scared that someone will drill this and down the path of sub optimal play.

It's a fair question.

I just watched video DTTS07 myself and I'm okay with it. I'm not super excited about it, but it's a level above most coaching I've seen worldwide. If I went to an international training camp and the head coach presented that to the best juniors in the world, I'd be positive about the coach.

LTT117 is a level above, in my opinion. 117 is the culmination of everything I've learned and it took me a long time to get to that level. It's what I teach world-ranked seniors and juniors. I don't want to get too specific about which players etc but I will say that some of them are very good.

BTW, I'm not big on intro vs pro teaching. Imo, there is just right. For example, LTT117 is just more accurate than DTTS07. I wrote the words for both videos, so I'm responsible. 117 is just me getting more accurate as I need to be better at my job. As I get better, I give you the outcomes.

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Yes, I've heard this topic a lot. It's the type of thing that makes someone 150 in the world instead of 50. It causes the player to play with an upright back and form ceases to follow function.

Elbow position (aka arm structure) does go hand-in-hand with LTT120. It's a very clever observation. As the body tilts and moves, the arm structure should go with it. The shoulder is the moving joint that gives extra whip and power to shots.

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