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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2020, 13:48 
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NextLevel wrote:
Don't worry about the loss of control - that just means you need to fix your contact point and that will adapt over time until you find a point on the ball that lets you keep the ball on the table. I often get mocked for looking for more power in my swing, but I tell people all the time that you can turn power into spin by contacting a higher point on the ball. But if you can't generate the speed, there is nothing to convert.

I'm learning to hit flatter with more power and less spin. I would say learning but it just seems to happen.


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2020, 17:19 
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pgpg wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
If you only shadow swing every day for 5 months, you can absolutely change your technique.
...


Damn it, as expected, I wasted all this lockdown time...


Peter, you are funnier than me and you only need to post once per year to prove it.

The lockdown was just a conspiracy designed to make you focus more on improving your company's algorithm. They didn't want your shadow swinging all day!

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2020, 17:26 
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mickd wrote:
I've always had problems with relaxing the arm and letting it swing freely because I feel like I lose all control of hitting the ball and creating spin.


I get it Mick. The key is to control your slightly out-of-control arm.

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2020, 17:35 
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NextLevel wrote:
mickd wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
The leg work is phenomenal Mick. I'm considering adding this to my video collection to show students how to use the legs. You'll be in there with Ma Long and Fan Zhendong.

I think that Russ is probably right about the swing thing. I'm certainly getting too old and tired to argue about it. 5 months of Indian lockdown changes a man, you know. I invited Xu Xin onto the forum to help, but he politely declined.

Mick, the thing is, your leg/body work is the world's best, but it's not having the maximum kinetic impact on your arm. If you twist like god, but lock your arm, then you're not going to have the momentum you've earned. Your follow through is longer than your backswing because you are trying to pull your arm up through the ball. The arm lacks "swing" from kinetic energy. A follow through (which is a misnomer) should be your arm slowing down from all of the early momentum. We finish somewhere above the eyes because that's how long it takes for a swinging racket to slow down, on average,. We don't finish above the eyes because that makes it a correct shot. That would be a fake swing, which can result in hefty fines or imprisonment.

This is a TJ post btw. I'm pretty happy with the shot already. If someone posts "you are the world's biggest TJ", I'm just going to take it on the chin. If Russ hadn't posted, I probably would have said "top forehand man". If an Indian junior came to a national camp with that forehand, I doubt I would have said a word. I'd probably have used him/her to demonstrate how to use the legs on the fh.


Thanks Brett. I think that's the main problem I've had since forever. The kinetic chain doesn't flow smoothly so I lose power in my strokes. To be honest, I think that's why my legs are doing a lot of the work. I have never been able to fix the stiff arm problem, so to get it better, I had to get the legs more into it.

I'll work a lot more on figuring out the arm now. I've always had problems with relaxing the arm and letting it swing freely because I feel like I lose all control of hitting the ball and creating spin. But I'm confident I'll eventually get it right :) There have been some shots where everything flowed and the ball has been a monster. I really like your analogy with the follow through. I never thought of it that way before and I think this might be the mindset I need to get it right. But I'll need time and practice for it!

I'm happy with Russ' reply for the same reason. I know there's something missing in the arm in allowing the power to flow.


Think of it as snapping into the ball. You kinda of snap past the ball in reality, but it feels like you snapped at the ball.

Don't worry about the loss of control - that just means you need to fix your contact point and that will adapt over time until you find a point on the ball that lets you keep the ball on the table. I often get mocked for looking for more power in my swing, but I tell people all the time that you can turn power into spin by contacting a higher point on the ball. But if you can't generate the speed, there is nothing to convert.


Good post Laj

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2020, 18:20 
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Interesting discussion on using a slower rubber. I tried boosting a G1 rubber on both sides today. My coach said I played better because I was more relaxed in my strokes. I could get good spin with a lot less effort. Somehow that psychologically allowed me to relax more in the swing. It is all in the head right?


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2020, 18:45 
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maurice101 wrote:
Interesting discussion on using a slower rubber. I tried boosting a G1 rubber on both sides today. My coach said I played better because I was more relaxed in my strokes. I could get good spin with a lot less effort. Somehow that psychologically allowed me to relax more in the swing. It is all in the head right?


A fast rubber will almost always feel better in training, especially when looping against block. It doesn't surprise me that you were more relaxed in your strokes and I personally know this feeling well.

If the game of table tennis was to only loop against block, I'd say that everyone should only use boosted Tenergy. The problem is, we don't loop against block as much as we think. We serve and return a large amount and we loop against push a lot. Then we block quite a bit and sometimes we get to loop against block.

"Sometimes looping against block" shouldn't necessarily be enough to determine which rubber one should use, even though that's what most people practice 81% of the time. Players mostly practice against block for the same reason they choose Tenergy or German rubber - it's a lot of fun!

Should one have the pleasure of looping nicely against block whilst flushing his/her serve/return game down the dunny? (Aust slang sorry)

This is where the balance comes in. You want to be able to hit a decent forehand whilst serving, returning, pushing and blocking - like a boss. Which is the best rubber now?

I think that understanding today's posts are really the key to making informed decisions. I'm in no position to make blanket statements about what each player should use.

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2020, 23:07 
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wilkinru wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
Don't worry about the loss of control - that just means you need to fix your contact point and that will adapt over time until you find a point on the ball that lets you keep the ball on the table. I often get mocked for looking for more power in my swing, but I tell people all the time that you can turn power into spin by contacting a higher point on the ball. But if you can't generate the speed, there is nothing to convert.

I'm learning to hit flatter with more power and less spin. I would say learning but it just seems to happen.


I can't tell from this post whether you are one of those people who thinks you can't spin with thick contact. Spin isn't about the thickness of contact per se, though I think I understand what you are trying to say. Just think of it as spinning with power or with thicker contact. Saying that it is hitting flatter to me is more misleading. It is harder to do with softer or bouncier rubber so many people who have never played with a hard sponge find the concept alien.

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2020, 23:50 
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maurice101 wrote:
Interesting discussion on using a slower rubber. I tried boosting a G1 rubber on both sides today. My coach said I played better because I was more relaxed in my strokes. I could get good spin with a lot less effort. Somehow that psychologically allowed me to relax more in the swing. It is all in the head right?


I had the opposite sensation. When I switched from g1 to aibiss (waaaay slower) I felt like I could let my arm swing totally free bc there was no way I could hit the ball further than 10' with that shizzle. Result was more relaxed, body-driven strokes.

But now I am on an ej mission to go to the pinnacle of tacky. What is the tackiest rubber in the history of the world, and what aliexpress shop can I order it from?

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2020, 23:56 
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NextLevel wrote:
wilkinru wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
Don't worry about the loss of control - that just means you need to fix your contact point and that will adapt over time until you find a point on the ball that lets you keep the ball on the table. I often get mocked for looking for more power in my swing, but I tell people all the time that you can turn power into spin by contacting a higher point on the ball. But if you can't generate the speed, there is nothing to convert.

I'm learning to hit flatter with more power and less spin. I would say learning but it just seems to happen.


I can't tell from this post whether you are one of those people who thinks you can't spin with thick contact. Spin isn't about the thickness of contact per se, though I think I understand what you are trying to say. Just think of it as spinning with power or with thicker contact. Saying that it is hitting flatter to me is more misleading. It is harder to do with softer or bouncier rubber so many people who have never played with a hard sponge find the concept alien.


The whole concept of hitting faster/harder, ignoring spin for the moment, I find of very questionable benefit. Unless you have really excellent jerusalem artichoke the ball just comes back to you faster. Pingpong players have good reflexes and we adjust to speed usually within the same game or match. Placement and spin variation are much harder to adjust to or overcome, and to me of very much higher value for, you know, winning games, than increasing top-end speed/power. But maybe if I had any power of my own I would appreciate it more. I just find adding power beats the people I would beat anyway, but is a wash at my level, and maybe a net negative when I play someone better than me. Because they can handle my speed better than I can.

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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2020, 01:17 
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Speaking on tacky rubbers. Whenever I tried to play with one, I immediately noticed that it was incredibly difficult to hit high topspin balls, by either smashing or looping. The ball went long all the time. The problem never existed with the soft German junk. Why so?

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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2020, 01:37 
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BRS wrote:
The whole concept of hitting faster/harder, ignoring spin for the moment, I find of very questionable benefit. Unless you have really excellent jerusalem artichoke the ball just comes back to you faster. Pingpong players have good reflexes and we adjust to speed usually within the same game or match. Placement and spin variation are much harder to adjust to or overcome, and to me of very much higher value for, you know, winning games, than increasing top-end speed/power. But maybe if I had any power of my own I would appreciate it more. I just find adding power beats the people I would beat anyway, but is a wash at my level, and maybe a net negative when I play someone better than me. Because they can handle my speed better than I can.


Spin can also be adjusted to especially with this new ball. Ultimately being able to hit the ball past people occasionally increases your range. Obviously variation is important but you can increase your spin threshold if you can swing the paddle faster. That is my general point.

Usually adding power is not done with optimal placement by most people who start out by adding power. So it isn't apples to apples. Most people hit hard to the most conservative spots on the table.

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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2020, 01:38 
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Dr.Pivot wrote:
Speaking on tacky rubbers. Whenever I tried to play with one, I immediately noticed that it was incredibly difficult to hit high topspin balls, by either smashing or looping. The ball went long all the time. The problem never existed with the soft German junk. Why so?

The stickiness holds the ball longer so you need to come over the top of the ball more or you send the ball long. The ball also comes off slower so you need to add spin. That is why many players twiddle to smash it they use Tacky rubber on forehand.

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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2020, 05:22 
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I find I enjoy training MUCH more than matches.
So I have decided to use boosted rubbers in training and give matches away! :o


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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2020, 07:19 
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So PF4 is basically identical to Aibiss except for $7.50 instead of $40. I like it a lot. But it is not very tacky.

And I want tacky.

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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2020, 08:45 
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BRS wrote:
So PF4 is basically identical to Aibiss except for $7.50 instead of $40. I like it a lot. But it is not very tacky.

And I want tacky.


PF4 is modern day tacky. You should have played back in the 80s when Double Fish made 815 and 830 etc. You had to pry the ball off the rubber.

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