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PostPosted: 07 May 2022, 02:26 
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I'm starting to think hitting the right area on the blade face matters a very lot. It would be interesting with your high-speed camera to see where the contacts are in free play.

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PostPosted: 07 May 2022, 04:25 
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BRS, I know when I tell my mind to hit a bit more at the end of the racket for the backhand topspin the spin goes up.
I also see the same effect trying to learn Mima Ito's punch type backhand.
If you look at slow video you can see she hits the punch nearer the end of the racket.
The software I mentioned allows you to go frame by frame.
I imagine she uses a fast racket with a large sweet spot.
So I would totally agree with your statement.
However, having good body mechanics in my mind is more important for non pro players.
Maybe when you have great technique you can focus on this area.
Brett's probably got a totally opposite view to me of course.


Last edited by maurice101 on 07 May 2022, 05:50, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 07 May 2022, 05:21 
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BRS wrote:
I'm starting to think hitting the right area on the blade face matters a very lot. It would be interesting with your high-speed camera to see where the contacts are in free play.


Just play with a brand new, dusty ball. You will see the contacts.

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PostPosted: 07 May 2022, 12:40 
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It matters where you hit the ball of the racket. No one really thinks about it and I've never heard top players talking about it, except on serve.

The sweet spot is near the top of the racket for sure. I just don't know if it's something you can/should be focused on. I think there are more important things to think about. It's an interesting topic though.

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PostPosted: 07 May 2022, 12:51 
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maurice101 wrote:
What would be even more interesting is to compare your own stroke speed with pro stroke speed. Does relaxing more give a speed boost. Does perfect body mechanics and technique give you a speed boost? Does a more dynamic push of the ground improve racket head speed? Does your slowing the back-swing down etc gives a big speed boost. I might have to get a high frame rate camera.


The AI app should be able to tell you your arm speed. It's something I'm interested in and it's relatively low hanging fruit for AI tech, even though it's not exactly the purpose of the app. It will be nice to do some shadow swings and see what makes your arm move faster. You'll be able to point your phone at Ma Long video/live and check his arm speed too.

Good technique shouldn't totally be about arm speed. There are many factors.

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PostPosted: 08 May 2022, 00:10 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
It matters where you hit the ball of the racket. No one really thinks about it and I've never heard top players talking about it, except on serve.

The sweet spot is near the top of the racket for sure. I just don't know if it's something you can/should be focused on. I think there are more important things to think about. It's an interesting topic though.


It's possible to think about it in warmups or more static exercises. Not so much when playing. But if you do it enough in practice it will just happen when you play, isn't that the whole theory behind practice? I don't know if it's desirable or beneficial to think about in practice, compared to the many, many other thought options. It does provide a nice variation from my baseline thoughts of 'watch the F*** ball' and 'move your damn feet.'

I do two segments of blocking for my coach during lessons. Gives me a break and my blocking has improved. That's when I noticed that making contact down closer to dead center on the bat gives way more control to my blocks than catching the sweet spot. BH hits definitely benefit from contact out towards the tip.

Occasionally I hit a ball that's really good. Like if I hit 1,200 balls in a normal one hour lesson, three of them might stand out as nice. I would like to understand why those three were 50 - 100% better quality than the other 1,197. It's not my technique because my technique is not that different from one ball to the next. One factor is coincidentally perfect timing, especially noticeable with the pips. Another is relaxation -- I never hit an especially good ball when I was actually trying to hit with special quality. And I think this sweet spot or location thing might be another factor. The difference is just too great to only have two contributing factors, that would violate the rhetorical rule of three.

Also I remember something from a tennis lesson many years ago, before I started table tennis. My coach, Andrew Acquadro, absolutely blistered a ball past me. I must have looked at him sideways because he apologized, saying, "Sorry for that. I accidentally hit the sweet spot." And it was the same kind of phenomenon. He wasn't trying to hit it well in a lesson with a crap player, he made no effort, but hitting perfectly on the racquet made a ball of absurd, completely unintentional quality.

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PostPosted: 08 May 2022, 15:17 
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BRS wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
It matters where you hit the ball of the racket. No one really thinks about it and I've never heard top players talking about it, except on serve.

The sweet spot is near the top of the racket for sure. I just don't know if it's something you can/should be focused on. I think there are more important things to think about. It's an interesting topic though.


It's possible to think about it in warmups or more static exercises. Not so much when playing. But if you do it enough in practice it will just happen when you play, isn't that the whole theory behind practice? I don't know if it's desirable or beneficial to think about in practice, compared to the many, many other thought options. It does provide a nice variation from my baseline thoughts of 'watch the F*** ball' and 'move your damn feet.'

I do two segments of blocking for my coach during lessons. Gives me a break and my blocking has improved. That's when I noticed that making contact down closer to dead center on the bat gives way more control to my blocks than catching the sweet spot. BH hits definitely benefit from contact out towards the tip.

Occasionally I hit a ball that's really good. Like if I hit 1,200 balls in a normal one hour lesson, three of them might stand out as nice. I would like to understand why those three were 50 - 100% better quality than the other 1,197. It's not my technique because my technique is not that different from one ball to the next. One factor is coincidentally perfect timing, especially noticeable with the pips. Another is relaxation -- I never hit an especially good ball when I was actually trying to hit with special quality. And I think this sweet spot or location thing might be another factor. The difference is just too great to only have two contributing factors, that would violate the rhetorical rule of three.

Also I remember something from a tennis lesson many years ago, before I started table tennis. My coach, Andrew Acquadro, absolutely blistered a ball past me. I must have looked at him sideways because he apologized, saying, "Sorry for that. I accidentally hit the sweet spot." And it was the same kind of phenomenon. He wasn't trying to hit it well in a lesson with a crap player, he made no effort, but hitting perfectly on the racquet made a ball of absurd, completely unintentional quality.


You can certainly give the warmup sweet spot thing a go. At worst, it's not going to hurt.

Some studies have shown that you'll improve by focusing on something specific when you train sport. The same studies show that what you focus on isn't important. This means you can focus on the ball or your elbow and expect to get similar positive results.

I personally don't think much about the racket. It's possible that enough balls hit my sweet spot so it never strikes me as important. I guess I really believe other things are more important.

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PostPosted: 10 May 2022, 04:00 
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Hi Brett,

Do you teach the harimotos style of backhand bodywork with the right hip back a bit and forward as he rises up these days.
I tried this and it does add power but it is more complicated ( for me) and can lead me to have too much weight on the right leg after the stroke.

Are more videos on ttedge.com coming soon? Please!


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PostPosted: 10 May 2022, 11:45 
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maurice101 wrote:
Hi Brett,

Do you teach the harimotos style of backhand bodywork with the right hip back a bit and forward as he rises up these days.
I tried this and it does add power but it is more complicated ( for me) and can lead me to have too much weight on the right leg after the stroke.

Are more videos on ttedge.com coming soon? Please!


I teach Harimoto's style from very close range. There doesn't need to be much deliberate body turn and the piston style arm and leg pump action is enough. This technique is only optimal at extremely close distance against certain balls.

Lin Yun Ju only uses this technique when the ball is still over the table in the rally. Otherwise he does something else. For example, he doesn't use it on his banana or mid distance play. When he is very close to the table and the oncoming ball has sufficient energy (speed/spin), he uses the Harimoto style to cut down the opponent's time which is the correct use. The Harimoto shot lacks power against the slowest balls and that's a problem.

Watch this final point https://youtu.be/QbxKjE26RXs?t=308 . I was in the crowd for this match and I barely saw the ball from Lin's backhand. I just heard a big cracking sound. My point is, The Harimoto is not the most effective shot against slow balls (the Olah flick was slow for Lin). Lin wanted to add power and used a different type of shot.

Lin Yun Ju has a variable backhand that takes context into consideration. I am a massive fan of what Harimoto and Ma Long do on their backhands and it all obviously works. I'm a bigger fan of Lin's variable approach.

Clearly I need to make some videos about these ideas. I leave for Korea in 9 days.

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PostPosted: 10 May 2022, 12:24 
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Yes I did notice some pros use a differing body work depending on the balls location.
So squat and rise for over the table balls and some left hip back for longer balls for more power?


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PostPosted: 10 May 2022, 13:04 
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maurice101 wrote:
Yes I did notice some pros use a differing body work depending on the balls location.
So squat and rise for over the table balls and some left hip back for longer balls for more power?


https://youtu.be/QbxKjE26RXs?t=309

Watch the above again. Do you think he used his hips? I don't. He didn't have time, though he wouldn't have twisted his hips if he actually had time. So where did the power come from?

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PostPosted: 10 May 2022, 13:09 
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Looks like there are as many backhands as there are players.

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PostPosted: 10 May 2022, 13:40 
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Dr.Pivot wrote:
Looks like there are as many backhands as there are players.


Maybe. I personally try to see it differently.

I see 2 main backhands that the very best players use.

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PostPosted: 10 May 2022, 13:51 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Dr.Pivot wrote:
Looks like there are as many backhands as there are players.


Maybe. I personally try to see it differently.

I see 2 main backhands that the very best players use.


What are they?

I am personally a fan of the "2-step process" theory. It is simple, it makes perfect sense, and it obviously works to some extent. At least it is infinitely better than the purely arm-driven swing that some people believe in. However, after the introduction of the "2-step process," I got a bit lost in subsequent and branching theories.

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PostPosted: 11 May 2022, 14:33 
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Quote:
"2-step process" theory.


What does than mean???.

On another note I am using split screen videos of myself and a pro and sending them to Brett. Its really reveling and its easy to see where you need improvements.

Now just get down LOWER.........

Mind says I am low. Videos never lie.


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