OOAK Table Tennis Forum

That's funny you are working on this. I've been drilling the s*** out of this technique for the last couple of weeks. The main difference from my 'old/current' is that the blade angle is extreme (flat) and then you use your legs to come up to help open the paddle. I think you adjust your wrist to the amount of spin too. It's really powerful but it's also very easy to dump it into the net or hit it extremely long or just straight up miss it. Timing is very difficult but it's also straight up devastating and works a step back from the table too.

The flat blade at the start helps fix one of my biggest issues - coming forward and creating speed. Instead of relying on the speed of the backspin ball coming at me I can now create a more forward motion. I've been more focused on lifting the ball with my legs and then add the arm angle and more forward power later.

Make sure to keep your elbow out too. Been trying to do a similar motion against all backspin balls - I figure if I'm going to come back and give this TT thing a go may as well make the backhand way better.

Similar video...



The left hand (offhand) movement is not a thing I do, thats for sure. How interesting.

I agree that the left hand movement suggested by Ti Long is interesting. Until now, I thought the purpose of keeping the left hand up is to have better balance and to track the ball.

Whether you twist/rotate your hips (what Ti Long and many pros do) or prefer the hips back hips forward motion (what Brett recommends based on Ma Long's technique iirc) adding the left hand movement could increase the power of the shot. This statement should be taken with a grain of salt as it's based on a few shadow swings

I don't want to mess around with technique too much currently, but adding the left hand movement to my current motion doesn't seem too big of a change, so I might give this a go.

@Iskander, have you tried the left hand movement?

I haven't been playing the last couple of weeks. I'll definitely will watch the video again and try it before we start playing again. He makes it look easy, I'm pretty sure it's not!

Iskandar

Yeah this stuff is not easy. Truth is everything about lifting backspin like this is from generating heaps of speed. Getting the most speed possible to overcome the backspin and just lift it over the net. The Chinese coaching videos are not for beginners. I'm feeling the burn from trying to really execute these shots and get that sort of noise from the blade. It's cool I can pretty much do a pro shot - but only against the robot

For me I still feel like having the back swing like the pro makes a huge difference along with the leg usage. The power and speed don't have to be this extreme and the shot can be built up. It's really sort of doing a flick just out of the table.

Lots of cool videos I've missed out on the last couple of years...

It's not all speed. There is a racket angle component as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqFblvZMZ9c

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I watched this one and the backhand related one this morning. Really good stuff.

Yes the angle of the racket matters but to hit it low over the net and deep into the table like pros do one needs that speed and dwell time as a result of the force.

Anyway good to be learning again.

So I have now joined Team Joola - Joola Vyzaryz Trinity Blade with Joola Golden Tango on FH and BH. Some of the guys I respect with good high level play as adult learners have been using Mizutani SZLCs, so without breaking the bank in that direction, this is my step towards that direction.

Not sure whether I posted this match here already, but this is the highest level adult learner I know. He was easilly in my range in 2014. He left my range sometime around 2018 and I played him for the first time in 2020 during the pandemic. The opponent is a former US Champion and one of the greatest American players of all time.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Our great leader has seemingly left us, but we have a couple of French kids showing us all of the new tricks.

One thing they do SO well is serve balls so they get a return they can loop and put away. It's really impressive how often they do this even against top players.

I think this is where being high level siblings pays off. They have attacked each other fairly often in practice matches so I suspect they are used to serving long to each other and countering each other's opening loop.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

So I bought a rebound board. $135. It sits a little behind the table.

Day 1: I thought it sucked - the spin coming back wasn't much and somehow I was able to have side spin when feeding the board. Barely could make 3 hits.
Day 2: Figured out how to feed with the backhand a bit better and as long as I create enough top spin initially it's OK. I'm not great at it but had some 6-7 hit "rallies".
Day 3: Figured out how to feed with backhand again - drop ball on table and loop the ball over and then take a small step back. It's actually very much like flicking a serve and then getting back.
Day 4: Increased the angle of the board and attacked the ball. Was able to do backhand from a middle distance quite well.
Day 5: Tried it with the forehand and had a blast. Sometimes it comes back to the backhand too if some side spin is applied. I have to move on every shot and it's not 100% obvious where the ball is going to go but I do have an educated guess - like when someone is blocking for you. Plus on the backhand sometimes it gets to my wide backhand which is great practice in trying to move and hit that ball.

It corrected my forehand stroke, I had been pulling up too much and not keeping the angle throughout the shot. The board gave me this feedback instantly. If I did it wrong it would not bounce back.

Return board does better than robot:
"Random" balls - the depth and location are much more variable. Sometimes the ball will be perfect, sometimes deep on the table and sometimes shorter - one of those finger bangers on the end of the table.
Speed wise it feels way more realistic. Blocks come back at a game pace, in fact I can tell that I cannot commonly hit more than 5-7 balls at a time without making a mistake - very game like for me!
Ability to change depth from the table (aka take a step back) and just make a bigger shot is really cool, one could do this with a robot too I suppose but the feedback you get from the blocked ball is realistic and if you hit a really strong ball it'll pop out of the table - like a match!
Different angles! More expensive robots tend to sit on the middle of the table and the rebound board can be angled to test out lots of things. My favorite (most hated) is the wide backhand ball. I can work on this from a realistic block.
Test your serve spin. I can see how my half long side spin serve is going to act against a passive paddle. I didn't expect this one until I was just serving practice and had left the return board there.

Going forward I'm likely going to use the robot nearly half of the time. It does the exercise and consistency part a lot better than a robot - you are rewarded for hitting a "good" ball. The robot does serves and lots of different spin types very well as well as scripted drills.

So I recommend getting one. I'm only a week in and may find more interesting things you can do with it still.

I created an interesting routine for my twins.

One has a habit of long swings for everything.
Set a robot on easy topspin to the backhand.
Have the players do a hiromoto style backhand.
Ie a short backswing as body goes forward. (delay the backswing)
Punch but with wrist flick and a shake at the end of the short stroke to get topspin.
Just copy hiromotos stroke.
Use a strong forward motion of shoulders to engage the ball.
Set the robot interval at 0.9. Then 0.7 and 0.6 and 0.5
No blocking allowed. Full power, punch and spin on contact.

They soon learned the importance of bretts body mechanics and the importance of a short backswing.
Even at 0.6 interval you need to delay the backswing a little to get the whip effect .
That surprised me a lot.

Try this for the forehand. Mini loop, wrist flick small rotation.
One twin could do a 0.5 interval well.

Brett's stuff works wonders. It gives players an unfair advantage.

I coached two 13 year olds to the Australian open after 1 year of playing. One had 50% wins
After 1.5 years of playing they are in division 2 of 5 divisions at their club.

Brett's key in my opinion.

Body mechanics is all importance even for block.
Delay the backswing until body is going forward in all shots (important)

Not in ttedge except in the serve instruction.

For most strokes, wrist flick by stopping forearm and shake at the end of the wrist flick. (not so much in forehand topspin)

Comments welcome

I coach identical twins. One improves and forces the other to improve. The disadvantage is that the are super competitive with each other. The older one by 2 minutes thinks he should always beat his younger brother. They are always blasting the ball at each other . Good when it goes in............

A page back there is, a discussion on the body mechanics on the backhand open up. Some players rotate from the hips left to right. Some do the bretts suggested method of unbowing from the waist.

Personally, for adult learners I feel the second method is better. The first method your swing is across the ball more, the hitting zone is smaller side to side and you need excellent footwork to get into position. Its harder to do in a match situation in my opinion.

I think that the backhand topspin shot has also gone way from the left to right hip rotation for most pros due to the above reasons.

Just about everyone rotates their hips from left to right, regardless of where they start the racket, even if they unbow from the waist. It's more about how pronounced the rotation is IMHO and whether they start the racket besides them or in front of them. It's just hard to pull the racket into the ball and lead with elbow without leading a little bit with the shoulder. If you are going to pull the right shoulder backwards, it needs to start a bit forwards.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus