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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2019, 03:10 
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wilkinru wrote:
This is going to degrade into the pro vs club player debate. Ratings will be discussed and all of that.

I'm just going to continue to try and hit the ball with lots of spin/power/quality and act like I'm a developing junior. After all I have a long road to 2000.


Russ, I'm responding to about three of your posts in one.

My right foot was not too close, my left foot was too far.

I don't want to hit one epic forehand out of twenty, I want 19 very good forehands. I don't see this as capping my level. I think it's absurd to suggest that considering the low level I play at now, and have been stuck at for years. Am I about to make a breakthrough with my current technique? LOLOLOLOL No, I am not.

I also want lots of spin power and quality. My big fh swing that this community likes so much delivers none of those things.

Shot quality doesn't come fron swing length or leverage or anything like that, it comes from timing. Feel free to disagree on that, I always need more shirts.

Basically I'm not religious about technique. I only care about results. The stroke I have learned does not produce the results I need from it. So I'll find another one that does. I really don't give a F*** if mine is wrong and the old one was right. I'm not interested in a game of Perfect-O, I just like making good balls.

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2019, 03:23 
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BRS wrote:
The stroke I have learned does not produce the results I need from it. So I'll find another one that does.


Go for it!


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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2019, 05:31 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
I think the shoulder should also not contribute to upper arm over use, especially when quick recovery is a priority


I've heard you mention upper arm overuse a few times, and it's time for me to ask what it means?


When the upper arm is moving without being driven by movement of the shoulder joint. If I point my arms out to the side and I rotate my body, I am not using my upper arms. If I point my arms outwards and I cross my elbows in front of my chest, I have used my upper arms.

Like I said a while back, the biggest thing I have noticed when watching pros vs amateurs is when they use movements of type 1 (shoulder joint powered by core) to largely move the racket vs movements of type 2 (upper arm moving the racket) to hit the ball. I think that accidentally, some of us who try to straight arm get into trouble with type 2 movements. This is what I try to reduce by getting people to hit the ball like Mizutani. Not to get them to be T Rex's. I try to get them to keep their core as what largely moves the racket and not their upper arm. I can't quite do It as well as i would like to but i try.

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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2019, 07:26 
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I think over-compensating for a lacking skill/movement isn't a bad idea. I see NL's plan here.


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PostPosted: 16 Aug 2019, 22:18 
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Yes, NL said it better than me. My arm is turning my body. That's what has to stop.

I want my body to move my arm. If the range of motion is smaller that way it's fine. The range isn't so important. The important thing is to change the sequence.

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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2019, 00:30 
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NextLevel wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
I think the shoulder should also not contribute to upper arm over use, especially when quick recovery is a priority


I've heard you mention upper arm overuse a few times, and it's time for me to ask what it means?


When the upper arm is moving without being driven by movement of the shoulder joint. If I point my arms out to the side and I rotate my body, I am not using my upper arms. If I point my arms outwards and I cross my elbows in front of my chest, I have used my upper arms.

Like I said a while back, the biggest thing I have noticed when watching pros vs amateurs is when they use movements of type 1 (shoulder joint powered by core) to largely move the racket vs movements of type 2 (upper arm moving the racket) to hit the ball. I think that accidentally, some of us who try to straight arm get into trouble with type 2 movements. This is what I try to reduce by getting people to hit the ball like Mizutani. Not to get them to be T Rex's. I try to get them to keep their core as what largely moves the racket and not their upper arm. I can't quite do It as well as i would like to but i try.


Got it.

Sometimes I drive myself crazy thinking about how much the arm is actually used. In true NextLevel style, I sometimes find myself shadow swinging in weird places, without deliberately starting. I want to see exactly what is going on.

If you use your body correctly, the arm gets a significant boost in the right direction. I know this for sure because I can feel the force in my hand. But does the body generate enough momentum so the arm can just be held straight, as per the rattle drum video?

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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2019, 00:51 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:

When the upper arm is moving without being driven by movement of the shoulder joint. If I point my arms out to the side and I rotate my body, I am not using my upper arms. If I point my arms outwards and I cross my elbows in front of my chest, I have used my upper arms.

Like I said a while back, the biggest thing I have noticed when watching pros vs amateurs is when they use movements of type 1 (shoulder joint powered by core) to largely move the racket vs movements of type 2 (upper arm moving the racket) to hit the ball. I think that accidentally, some of us who try to straight arm get into trouble with type 2 movements. This is what I try to reduce by getting people to hit the ball like Mizutani. Not to get them to be T Rex's. I try to get them to keep their core as what largely moves the racket and not their upper arm. I can't quite do It as well as i would like to but i try.


Got it.

Sometimes I drive myself crazy thinking about how much the arm is actually used. In true NextLevel style, I sometimes find myself shadow swinging in weird places, without deliberately starting. I want to see exactly what is going on.

If you use your body correctly, the arm gets a significant boost in the right direction. I know this for sure because I can feel the force in my hand. But does the body generate enough momentum so the arm can just be held straight, as per the rattle drum video?


There is clearly some motion in the upper arm independent of core rotation IMO. But on most pro shots, there is far less motion than the optics of the shot project to the untrained eye. In fact many people get surprised by how far back their arm goes if they backswing with body rotation on the forehand side. In fact, I tell people that the forehand backswing involves zero usage of the arm to actively take the racket back. Unfortunately once one is used to actually swinging too actively with the arm, it is an impossibly difficult habit to break.

To be honest sometimes I don't even feel the extra speed from the body in my arm. I just see it in the quality of the ball. Because you can hit the ball with your body weight if you rotate the quickly enough. This is practice but how much is this guy using his upper arm? His elbow and arm looks almost locked on every shot he hits.

https://www.facebook.com/ITTFWorld/vide ... 677479772/

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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2019, 01:15 
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NextLevel wrote:
Unfortunately once one is used to actually swinging too actively with the arm, it is an impossibly difficult habit to break.


Everything in table tennis is impossibly difficult to change, but we still do it or how do we improve? I don't think this is any harder than anything else. All it takes is a few hundred thousand deliberate practice reps. And how difficult is that really?

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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2019, 16:42 
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LTT117 is now available on ttEDGE.com

As I mentioned, I'm teaching this stuff a lot on a daily basis, so it was time for the video.

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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2019, 18:42 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
LTT117 is now available on ttEDGE.com

As I mentioned, I'm teaching this stuff a lot on a daily basis, so it was time for the video.


This is great. I look forward to the backhand version. I find jumping into the fh backswing much more intuitive than the backhand. I can just do it in practice. With the backhand something feels off. The coach at my club has told me my body with the backhand looks stiff too. I just try to do the two step bow but something about it isn't quiet right, it isn't fluid.

I don't imagine it to be too complicated, like I should just do a mini hop into the bow position but something about my bow position isn't really right.. I should get some footage.


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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2019, 19:37 
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Richfs wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
LTT117 is now available on ttEDGE.com

As I mentioned, I'm teaching this stuff a lot on a daily basis, so it was time for the video.


This is great. I look forward to the backhand version. I find jumping into the fh backswing much more intuitive than the backhand. I can just do it in practice. With the backhand something feels off. The coach at my club has told me my body with the backhand looks stiff too. I just try to do the two step bow but something about it isn't quiet right, it isn't fluid.

I don't imagine it to be too complicated, like I should just do a mini hop into the bow position but something about my bow position isn't really right.. I should get some footage.


I'm glad you like it Rich.

I think it will help some members who are ready for it. I'm using it a lot with some very decent players and I like what I'm seeing. In general, higher level players are going to appreciate this content more, although everyone should learn from the left knee position thing.

When I was training a little myself, I started jumping into every single backhand block/hit/topspin, even when the ball was coming directly to me. I found that the jump was micro managing my position as well as adding momentum on the shot. The jump is sometimes the "bounce" that everyone is talking about and I think it's a bit misunderstood.

LTT90 was really the start of this conversation.

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2019, 02:04 
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Great video. This lines up with my theory perfectly and what I found myself doing for the last month without knowing it.


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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2019, 13:38 
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Name the player

Attachment:
player.JPG
player.JPG [ 14.71 KiB | Viewed 276 times ]

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2019, 13:42 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Name the player

Attachment:
player.JPG


Harimoto. We spent 126 posts discussing a similar picture on mytt for reasons I wish had value right now.

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2019, 14:01 
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NextLevel wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Name the player

Attachment:
player.JPG


Harimoto. We spent 126 posts discussing a similar picture on mytt for reasons I wish had value right now.


NextLevel wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Name the player

Attachment:
player.JPG


Harimoto. We spent 126 posts discussing a similar picture on mytt for reasons I wish had value right now.


Yeah. He's able to consistently make this position and I believe it's one of the keys to his success. His sister is making the same position too on her forehand. For this reason, I don't believe either of them are backhand oriented, even though they have strong backhands. Now all they need is someone to tell them their backswings are too long. Someone could make a fortune out of this advice...or they are just wrong.

If it makes you feel 3% better, my knees probably aren't good enough to play this aggressively either. I'm just a coach anyway.

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