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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2020, 22:48 
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BRS wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Now a post for the EJs of this world.

What is the solution to all of this?


NL and I have solved this already. Every time someone posts one of our favorite blades for sale we buy it, no matter how many we already have. I am up to three acoustic carbons, and narrowly escaped buying a fourth only because it was a flare. So we can have a different set of rubbers for every Köppen zone. That's a really good excuse actually.


Wonderful plan! I think that everyone's wife/partner would totally understand that all of these purchases are completely necessary after hearing about the impact of weather conditions.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 07:53 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
wilkinru wrote:
Insert joke about virus and backhand here.


OK




Do you recommend using the BH grip for the BH "shove"?


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 08:12 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
The backhand being discussed was mostly inspired by Harimoto. It has become normal for people to see him ranked in the top few, but it's not normal for me.

Harimoto is a child. He is a kid who is significant in World Tour tournaments and children really shouldn't be winning these tournaments and beating Chinese etc. It has been going on for so long that people have accepted that a child is playing at this level. For me, Harimoto is an aberration that deserves a bunch of thought and observation.

I go to many World Tour tournaments. I can tell you for nothing that it is super difficult to win 2 rounds of the qualification/preliminary of these events and it's actually near impossible to win the entire tournament. There are very serious 2900 level Chinese losing early in the preliminary rounds of major tournaments. Yan An is an example in Doha, Qatar.

My point is that these World Tour events are no place for Children so it is amazing how good Harimoto is.

Okay, I'll get back to the backhand topic. Take a look at Timo Boll's backhand topspin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9v-LfwyukE . Is this shot "right" or "wrong"? It's a great backhand and it's what I have previously taught. This doesn't make me a bad/wrong coach, right? The problem with this backhand is, I can't really do it consistently as Timo can. I'm a washed-up coach and I struggle to make 3 of these in a row. I have a thousand ways to miss the ball.

Now take a look at the first 10 seconds of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQlG2qPbhj8 Even though I haven't played more than 500 backhand topspins in the last 12 months, I can easily make 30 in a row of this type. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qn8Dx0FIFs . There was no magic editing done here and you can see the entire take. I could make 100 in a row if I took a couple of shots at it and my arm didn't get tired.

To a certain extent, I think Harimoto is cheating on the complexities of backhand and also gaining an edge in the process. Take a look at this one point https://youtu.be/PQlG2qPbhj8?t=76 After the Banana flick, Harimoto makes what I'm calling a "shove" backhand topspin. It's incredibly effective and surprisingly easy to do. It gives your opponent no time to react and, at the very least, positions you to win the point.

This is the reason why I'm introducing the backhand technique. It will be part 4 of the ttEDGE 2020 series.


Interesting thoughts about Harimoto!

Imo Lin Yun Ju's level of play/form was better than Harimoto's during the second half of 2019 (except in December). During that period, I thought that Lin had a better chance of becoming No. 1 down the road compared to Harimoto. Then, Harimoto seemed to have overtaken Lin again at the Men's World Cup where the former showed significant improvements in his FH topspin and beat ML 4:2 in the semifinal (he also used the BH shove down the line very effectively). I haven't watched much table tennis since then.

Off-topic, but I am curious who you rate more highly.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 08:18 
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The main benefit of all this so far is that I don't have to be ashamed of my shove backhand anymore and I can now use and teach it without any shame. And maybe get it to a higher level than it was before

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 12:01 
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chopblock wrote:

Interesting thoughts about Harimoto!

Imo Lin Yun Ju's level of play/form was better than Harimoto's during the second half of 2019 (except in December). During that period, I thought that Lin had a better chance of becoming No. 1 down the road compared to Harimoto. Then, Harimoto seemed to have overtaken Lin again at the Men's World Cup where the former showed significant improvements in his FH topspin and beat ML 4:2 in the semifinal (he also used the BH shove down the line very effectively). I haven't watched much table tennis since then.

Off-topic, but I am curious who you rate more highly.


There is no doubt that Lin Yun Ju is a special player. I've coached against both Harimoto and Lin and I found Lin to be harder. Lin Yun Ju doesn't appear to have any flaws in his game whereas Harimoto's problems are more obvious.

I'm more interested in Harimoto for a couple of reasons. He was beating top players from the age of 11 and he uses exaggerated technique. When a player is evolving the game from a very young age, it's relatively easy to catch onto the truth about superior technique and trends because it is obvious what they are doing.

My goal is to "solve" table tennis and Harimoto is a big piece of the puzzle. The reason I want to solve table tennis is so I can accurately teach all the shots in a few seconds in a live setting and make videos like ttEDGE 2020 02.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 12:24 
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NextLevel wrote:
The master of the shove backhand technique for me is Jeoung Youngsik.


He certainly has a shove and he is a really nice player.

In general, I feel that Jeoung Youngsik backhand technique is way inferior to Harimoto's, even though he is very good at it. I very much doubt that he "knows" what he is doing. His body movement isn't properly defined in training. My gut tells me that if you asked him how to play the shot, he'd give you a non-sensical explanation, as with most elite players. My feeling is that Harimoto knows exactly what he is doing as his body movement is always exaggerated and properly defined. I'm making a few big assumptions here, I know.

There can be a difference between being good at a shot and being completely correct. I don't think he is completely correct.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 12:27 
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NextLevel wrote:
That said, Big Dipper is a better rubber than Mercury 2. It is not even close.


Interesting. Please tell me how/why?

I'm using Mercury on my backhand and Big Dipper on my forehand. I'm interested in what you have to say because I have a few feelings that I can't yet explain.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 12:57 
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chopblock wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
wilkinru wrote:
Insert joke about virus and backhand here.


OK




Do you recommend using the BH grip for the BH "shove"?


If you want, though it's not absolutely necessary. I don't consciously change the position of my thumb on the racket.

What you must do is have your thumb facing the roof though.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 12:58 
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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 13:30 
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I forgot my tripod today but my brain has now seen this new backhand and thus I started in on it.

I was putting a ton of balls on the table and felt like I had more time after the block coming back. It wasn't quite as deadly but the placement felt considerably easier. There is times to use a more brush around the ball, such as when the ball is a little wide.

This is what I needed...more TJing. Seriously I love it.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 18:56 
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Pitchford just beat Xu Xin. We need to rewrite the textbook on Shallow fades and Gauzy and Pitchford used then effectively multiple times against Xu.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 03:05 
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Brett Clarke wrote:

There is no doubt that Lin Yun Ju is a special player. I've coached against both Harimoto and Lin and I found Lin to be harder. Lin Yun Ju doesn't appear to have any flaws in his game whereas Harimoto's problems are more obvious.


Out of curiosity, what are Harimoto's problems?

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 14:47 
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My elbow has been hurting, so I gave it a go on the left hand and while it's just the robot I was hitting a decent % in. Actually I could do the same on the forehand. It's like the arm doesn't even matter a ton. Sure it matters but one can make reasonable looking shots so quickly if the body is coordinated enough.

Really makes me reconsider how to teach complete newbies to TT.

If you had 20 1 hour sessions with a total newbie at TT...what would your plan be?

Before I would tell you multiball day 1. Now I'm considering just shadow swinging and serve practice for the first few sessions.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 20:19 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
That said, Big Dipper is a better rubber than Mercury 2. It is not even close.


Interesting. Please tell me how/why?

I'm using Mercury on my backhand and Big Dipper on my forehand. I'm interested in what you have to say because I have a few feelings that I can't yet explain.


The sponge for Big Dipper is better. The pip structure is better for high arc looping as well because Big Dipper is also designed to be more like H3 and be an offensive looping rubber. The topsheet for Big Dipper is stickier as erll -Mercury 2 isn't really tacky. Maybe there is a pro version of Mercury 2 I should have used but it just didn't compare. That said the price of Mercury 2 was hard to beat so I gave it to one of my students to start with until he develops good strokes.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 20:24 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
The master of the shove backhand technique for me is Jeoung Youngsik.


He certainly has a shove and he is a really nice player.

In general, I feel that Jeoung Youngsik backhand technique is way inferior to Harimoto's, even though he is very good at it. I very much doubt that he "knows" what he is doing. His body movement isn't properly defined in training. My gut tells me that if you asked him how to play the shot, he'd give you a non-sensical explanation, as with most elite players. My feeling is that Harimoto knows exactly what he is doing as his body movement is always exaggerated and properly defined. I'm making a few big assumptions here, I know.

There can be a difference between being good at a shot and being completely correct. I don't think he is completely correct.



This is fair. I think I focus more on the use of the hand and it is true that Jeoung has crazy looking usage of his body on both backhand and forehand (crazy as in weird). He. plays like someone whose technique would get him kicked off the team if he didn't win matches but the effectiveness speaks for itself. But I don't remember a player who used to fire off so many effectively troubling backhands close to the table like that before Jeoung (Oh Sang Eun maybe?). When I think of just playing fast backhands off the bounce close to the table I think of him maybe because we are similar in height. Harimoto used to strike me more as a midget who got away with seeing the ball like Mima Ito.

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