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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2020, 04:21 
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mickd wrote:

Haha I would love to post some epic match for you guys to see... but I am what I am currently. And that's probably like an ~1800 player. A lot of my match videos are on the other forum, so if you haven't seen them, look up my threads there :)

NL understands where I am at with the stroke. But I think realistically it'll be more like 1-2 years before I can comfortably use them in matches. He gives me too much credit.

Both the BH dive I'm currently practicing, and the BH against underspin are new creations of mine since I started using a robot a few days ago. The dive came natural because it was close to my current backhand, except I'm passive with it, so there is no acceleration of the arm through the use of the body. Just the body bouncing up and down I guess. But using a robot like this is something that I've always wanted to do to try and learn how the top players use their body and how they're able to hit such amazing balls. I'd have zero chance to effectively use them at my current skill ability :sweat:

But I have a plan, and I hope that if things pan out, sooner rather than later I'll be able to utilize them in actual match settings. The only hiccup in the plan is that I'll probably need to forfeit this beautiful training room once schools open up next week.

Today I moved the BH dive into the second part of the 1000 part plan. I set the robot to do one of three differently placed balls randomly to the backhand side, so at least I'd have to move while trying to maintain technique. I found it difficult to move my legs fast enough so I think most the time I was just shifting my weight to the left or right to get my body behind the ball. The speed was set to I think about 50 balls a minute. I enjoyed the practice and I plan to do it again the next time I go, too.

Backhand Dive Random Front View:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR-yHF0bJeE

I went to a table tennis workshop for kids a few months ago, and the coach there mentioned to just shift your weight when the ball comes to your backhand as long as it's within reach by shifting your weight only. He basically said there was no need to move. What do you guys think? I suspect the answer might have to do with time. I see FZD shift his weight without really moving his legs to get fast balls to his wide backhand, but I don't really remember seeing Ma Long do it as much. Should I try to train to do micro steps instead? And if I'm short for time, just shift my weight?



Feel as if you are tucking the racket in between your legs. It will give you more room to just straighten the back without jumping forward.

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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2020, 09:58 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Now play Ma Long a match and let's see if it all works. You've had you 26 seconds of training.

Mick, if by some chance you are now posting to chuckle at the responses (including mine), you are now my hero. Either way, please keep the videos coming.


Would you help me organise that match, please :P

I used to post a lot more on myTT because I would always check the forum and it seemed like there were never any new posts. And I didn't really have anything good to add so I posted videos. Then I started to get busier at work and couldn't find the time to. Covid-19 has given me a lot more time this past week so I'm hoping to keep this up, at least until I get busy with work again!

Brett Clarke wrote:
Mick, that didn't quite look as sweet as it did from the front view yesterday. There were a few towards the end that looked good though.

It's a bit unnatural for you to straighten the torso/thrust the hips. Keep using your camera until you get it right. I know, that you know, what to do.


Thanks. I'll keep recording. I think I know the feeling I need to generate to get it right. The unsquatting came very naturally, but the forward thrust is proving to be a little more of a challenge! I think I'll watch that video of Ma Long looping backhands a few more times. Off memory he had a very pronounced forward thrust. It nearly felt like he wasn't unsquatting at all. Just thrusting forward from the squat position. I don't have the confidence to lift the ball like that. But maybe it'll work out if I give it a solid hour with the robot.

Thanks Brett!


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2020, 10:17 
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NextLevel wrote:
I had a $50 wager riding on that Berg match. That is why I was pumped to win. The backhand was working and I didn't know better so rinse and repeat.

I know you have done this before so I took a page out of your book. We all forget how far we have come in our efforts to get better so it is good look at the video tape especially when we aren't winning matches (or in this case, playing them as much).


I've only ever had a drink as a wager for a match. That would explain the extra excitement and why Berg wasn't that pleased haha. I never win matches is my biggest problem. I'm really good at giving people much better than me a good game, but never actually winning.

Sometimes I still look at that thread I made years ago. It really does help. It's like awhile back when fastmover (or wilkinru?) made the compilation of their best points and Brett asked others to also do the same. They really do help when feeling down about progress.

NextLevel wrote:
Not sure what would hammer someone like Mick? Maybe some comments on how bad his clothes look? OR that he needs a new haircut?


I like my andro shirts. I love the simple designs ones. They also have flower-pattern designs, but they're not for me. I saw Adam Bobrow had some really cool Xiom shoes in his videos. I'm planning to get a pair...

wilkinru wrote:
It's new and sometimes you don't look quite smooth (some look pretty good!) but learning this will aid you in whatever version of the shot you end up with. Perhaps it ends up being a much smaller motion in matches or maybe it makes your backhand loop vs backspin become slightly more consistent. Learning these body motions and how it can aid shot production is really useful. Now is a great time to experiment, right?


Doing the 2020 03 backhand (slightly wrong yes) has remarkably made my backhand block turn into a monster. It's likely I'm doing too much of the 04 when I'm trying to do the 03 but having the 04 is pretty awesome. Not much is getting past my backhand now and my re-direction is really improving too. It will be nice when I get a chance to try it against better players. The same old guys is all I get to see for a while. We play TT when it is still dark and return to isolation as the sun rises.


Thanks wilkinru. My match backhand opening is a lot milder in every way. But I do notice the squat and unsquating and various other small intricacies that resemble something table tennis-esque.

Your overall play looks a lot more consistent and you get heaps of body into a lot of your shots. There is a clear transformation and I think your attitude for improvement plays a big role there. Keep the ttEdge 2020 video posts up. I may not comment much, but I've been reading every post here for a long time now (including looking at the videos!).


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2020, 23:40 
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mickd wrote:

I've only ever had a drink as a wager for a match. That would explain the extra excitement and why Berg wasn't that pleased haha. I never win matches is my biggest problem. I'm really good at giving people much better than me a good game, but never actually winning.



Mark Berg is a "legend" of amateur American TT, partly for his play, largely for his expressiveness. The wager wasn't with him, it was actually with my coach (who died recently, may he rest in peace).

mickd wrote:

I like my andro shirts. I love the simple designs ones. They also have flower-pattern designs, but they're not for me. I saw Adam Bobrow had some really cool Xiom shoes in his videos. I'm planning to get a pair...


I was being really silly. Given what I wear when training and what I use it to do, I should be the last person to speak.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 02:08 
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NextLevel wrote:
mickd wrote:

I've only ever had a drink as a wager for a match. That would explain the extra excitement and why Berg wasn't that pleased haha. I never win matches is my biggest problem. I'm really good at giving people much better than me a good game, but never actually winning.



Mark Berg is a "legend" of amateur American TT, partly for his play, largely for his expressiveness. The wager wasn't with him, it was actually with my coach (who died recently, may he rest in peace).

mickd wrote:

I like my andro shirts. I love the simple designs ones. They also have flower-pattern designs, but they're not for me. I saw Adam Bobrow had some really cool Xiom shoes in his videos. I'm planning to get a pair...


I was being really silly. Given what I wear when training and what I use it to do, I should be the last person to speak.


Ah, sorry to hear about your coach. It sounds like he was a really cool guy, willing to put up wagers like that to help you progress. And I know you were joking about the shirts. I was just being cheeky back :)

I'm still thinking a lot about the backhand against underspin. Today I came up with 3 different versions. They're similar in a lot of ways, but they had me concentrating on different things (and thus different outcomes). I recorded them from the opposite side because I wanted it to be from the same side as my inspiration video below.

My inspiration was this Ma Long video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Czp-8zoqg

Version 1 has me thinking mostly about squatting low. Low enough to get my racket starting below table height.

BH Against Under Side View Version 1 (Feel free to skip the last 10 seconds. It's just me thinking about if I'll be able to make the next ball in time with this stroke):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ_c0Bk9Spc

I think this looks the most standard but it lacks me "thrusting my hips forward". I'm not sure. Maybe my hips are going forward in this and this is the best version, but I tried other things too, which led to version 2.

BH Against Under Side View Version 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE3E6kv4d7g

This version had me trying to thrust my hips forward. A lot of it looks overly exaggerated on video. You'll see me shadow it at the start as well. The idea is that my hips go forward to straighten the back. But in reality, it nearly looks like I'm leaning backwards because of the amount I'm trying to push the hips forward.

Version 3 was kind of a fluke, but it felt interesting. Instead of generating spin with a thick contact, one of the times the ball kind of jumped at me a little so I ended up brushing it a lot more. In general when I do it this way, there was no cracking sound. But the ball felt a lot safer and possibly more consistent once I get used to it. The end of he video has it a little more obvious for what I mean.

BH Against Under Side View Version 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZEVJWPdMbE

What do you guys think? Which seems the most technically complete? Or am I trailing further away by trying these things? Any advice greatly appreciated.

P.S. These balls were quite tiring to maintain. I think I'm generally quite mobile, but the non-stop squatting had my legs feeling a little weak. I'm hoping this practice will also help me build strength in my legs, too.

EDIT: Actually, maybe it's hard to see what I mean with version 3. So maybe ignore :sweat:


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 02:56 
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I like version 3 a lot (because it has more twist than the others), and version 2 the least, because it has the shortest backswing. Version 3 is like something I would play though your squat is better than anything I could ever achieve. There are some good shots in silent spin style, the first one you like, there is one 20 seconds in and another couple at 40 and 44 seconds. Can't speak to the timing or the co-ordination but the arm usage even has some good stuff in it!

The most important thing for me is that your backswing position of your arm is looking better and better. Keep optimizing it even vs topspin. Get the racket pointing back as far as possible on the shadows and actual strokes.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 03:12 
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For EJs world over!

https://butterflyonline.com/butterfly-t ... gnics-09c/

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 04:12 
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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 11:59 
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NextLevel wrote:


Cool. They have finally worked how to copy Yinhe rubber for 10-20 times the price. Okay, maybe it's a bit faster, which makes it worse.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 12:07 
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Mick, if you want to thrust your hips forward, you have to put them back first or else you'll end up going backward.

In other words, you need to lean your torso forward much more on the backswing. Squatting requires you to lean your body forward...a bit like a frog.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 12:14 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:


Cool. They have finally worked how to copy Yinhe rubber for 10-20 times the price. Okay, maybe it's a bit faster, which makes it worse.


They also have a rubber called Spin Art. It has a tacky top and spring sponge (same as this "new" one) and it's decent to play with. It never really took off, probably because of the name and it is slower than T05.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 14:00 
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Turns out Ovtcharov now plays with Dignics 09C on his forehand and Dignics 05 on his backhand. So he's turned Chinese? :lol:

(No one else in the top 200 has switched to Dignics, at least not on this web site:)

https://tabletennis.guide/goods.php?sec ... popularity

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 15:54 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Turns out Ovtcharov now plays with Dignics 09C on his forehand and Dignics 05 on his backhand. So he's turned Chinese? :lol:

(No one else in the top 200 has switched to Dignics, at least not on this web site:)

https://tabletennis.guide/goods.php?sec ... popularity

Iskandar


I'm not going to mention names, but there are a lot of Europeans who have wanted more Chinese-like rubber for a long time.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 22:55 
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In other news: Robots are great and every TT player should buy one.

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 22:59 
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BRS wrote:
In other news: Robots are great and every TT player should buy one.


Hehe, what have you done? Which one?

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