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PostPosted: 10 Oct 2020, 01:17 
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I have an even more effective tactic for you. It will require some dedicated serve pratice, but you are known to practice a serve or two.

Since March I have been bored shitless every day serving straight backspin and doing shadow jerusalem artichoke. I am serving mostly short to the fh, obvs, and I started blocking off the center of the table with a towel and serving closer and closer to the line, outside the towel.

So here is the tactic, 100% guaranteed to tilt any opponent.

Practice serving straight down the white line until you can do it 90%+. It's not that hard bc I have no skills and I can do it pretty often. Then rotate your body one-tenth of one degree more and your serve will edge ball off the first bounce on his side. Once you have that down the tactic is easy.

At the start of the match serve edge balls your first two serves. Pretend it is an accident and apologize profusely, like over the top, time-wasting apologies after each serve. On your third serve give him another edge ball. Put both hands up, walk around behind the table, say you can't believe this, another big production, give him some time to think. Your fourth serve goes deep and fast to his bh corner for an ace, since he jumped around his fh corner to return the next edge ball. He is now only a few feet from your recovery position, looking behind him at the ball rolling away down the court. Pump your fist and scream CHOLEY-CHOLEY-CHO!!!!! as loud as you possibly can.

Guaranteed tilt.

Brett obvs this will only work for you against another lefty. Maybe you can challenge Alois to a friendly game.

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PostPosted: 10 Oct 2020, 11:04 
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I just spent 15 minutes working on serving on the white line...must happen!


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PostPosted: 30 Oct 2020, 08:32 
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I thought I would post what I have been working on in training to get some feedback good or bad. Maybe others can comment on what they are working on in training too.

When I do a quality shot there is a feeling of explosiveness on ball contact. The ball has power and spin. This is a distinct feeling and I know when I do a shot that lacks this feeling. This feeling is more so on a backhand topspin, forehand serve or backhand flick but the feeling is still there on a good forehand.

I think the feeling comes from having the highest swing speed on ball contact.

The shot quality with this feeling is good enough to be a winner directed down the line on both forehead or backhand for most players at my club and at times can get past my coach on free play in training.

My coach as suggested when I do an excellent shot just remember the feeling and repeat it next shot. Easier said than done though.

So what I am working on is to look for technical points that increase this feeling if I lose it. Using the body well as in Brett's videos is one key point. Being relaxed in the backswing and pushing off the right leg and fast right hip movement seems the key to increase the explosive feeling for the forehand.

I find one of my biggest issues is psychological. I really have to be aggressive to get the feeling and a lot of time I just do not go for the shot enough and I can restrict my follow through. This happens with open up against backspin on both forehand and backhand again and again.Hopefully with more training this will change.

Feedback welcome.


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PostPosted: 30 Oct 2020, 11:14 
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5 days a week I do a 3 hour+ training routine.

Forehand against block (then I block)
Backhand against block (then I block)
Forehand against backspin, partner blocks (being fed, then I do the same for my partner)
Forehand against backspin, I feed the first ball, partner blocks or attacks, play the point (same for partner)
Backhand against backspin, partner blocks (being fed, then I do the same for my partner)
Backhand against backspin, I feed the first ball, partner blocks or attacks, play the point (same for partner)
Then do 1-2 more drills each, short pushing or serve/return(and recovery) specific work. Sometimes away from the table looping for fun.
This all is about 2 hours of work.
Then matches for an hour+.

I've made lots of little discoveries doing this same thing over and over. Feeding backspin and then getting a push back to loop is a great training tool and has really helped my open up loops in games. I think this is nearly the optimal training routine for players at or around my level.

Discoveries in the last month:
I can do chicken wing or extended arm loops. Chicken wing loops tend to go shorter on the table(against backspin) and work a lot better against faster balls (any spin). Longer arm loops are great when there is enough time to execute them.
Backhand against backspin is really hard to do in a match or match like situation. I'm tinkering with technique by coming forward more with my shot. More adjustments required.
Most shots are just me making circles to hit the ball (NL!).


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PostPosted: 30 Oct 2020, 14:04 
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@maurice

there is a recent video at ttdaily where Ovtcharov makes a similar comment to your coach:

"I did a lot of multiball practice where i really got 120%...just try to learn the acceleration to like feel it you know...yeah feel like when i get the power and then like try to memorise it."

it sounds like you have some difficulty in producing a satisfactory (by your standards) FH topspin vs backspin or BH topspin vs backspin in a match situation. what might help is going back a step and practicing these using multiball or a robot more often to cement the technique.


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PostPosted: 30 Oct 2020, 15:29 
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Chopblock you are on the money. I loved that quote.

Quote:
"I did a lot of multiball practice where i really got 120%...just try to learn the acceleration to like feel it you know...yeah feel like when i get the power and then like try to memorise it."


I just have to feel the acceleration into the ball in match situations. At least now I can identify when I do not have the feeling!!! Last training session every-time I did not have the feeling I was hard on myself. Table tennis is a frustrating game.

Just more practice and more practice and more practice. .......


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2020, 10:07 
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Looks like Russ and I have traded places.

I can now only play once or twice a week. One of those times is coaching on Thursday evening and after I coach, I play some matches with a fellow 2000 to 2100 player (we have been playing each other for years, well over 7 years I think). After the first time we resumed playing I started noticing that I just couldn't maintain the ball quality in rallies to stay in the point. It put so much pressure on my serve and attack game that I accepted that I couldn't train enough to use my sticky rubber setup. Then one day I played like real crap and while you should never place too much emphasis on one day of play, a man's gotta know his limitations...

So I am back to fast blade with softer rubber, non-sticky ESN rubber. Not sure whether Ben and I ever finalized our equipment bet lol but the one thing I appreciated is that if you want to use Chinese rubber, you bgg gotta train a bit. With my new setup I can't drop stuff short, but I can stay in the rally better.

And can anyone remind me why I was so stupid to think that putting sticky rubber on my backhand was a good idea becaus Boll and Ma Long are doing it? My backhand is 25 times better with regular non sticky rubber.

Maybe if I train a lot again, which I doubt will happen anytime in the next 2 to 3 years, I might try sticky rubber again. But right now I will take being able to block the ball from 3 feet off the table to looping the ball from 3 feet off the table.into the net and blocking the ball if out of position with my forehand over having to try my best to strike the ball while it won't get past the net.

Obviously my serve return will suck a bit but I didn't have the footwork to get to the short push on time anyways.

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2020, 13:53 
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I haven't tried sticky on the backhand either. The flick and power is so hard to give up. I've thought about it a lot but just can't do it. The sticky on the forehand mostly is ideal for touch and return of serve - my forehand has never been that good.


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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2020, 09:12 
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maurice101 wrote:
I thought I would post what I have been working on in training to get some feedback good or bad. Maybe others can comment on what they are working on in training too.

When I do a quality shot there is a feeling of explosiveness on ball contact. The ball has power and spin. This is a distinct feeling and I know when I do a shot that lacks this feeling. This feeling is more so on a backhand topspin, forehand serve or backhand flick but the feeling is still there on a good forehand.

I think the feeling comes from having the highest swing speed on ball contact.

The shot quality with this feeling is good enough to be a winner directed down the line on both forehead or backhand for most players at my club and at times can get past my coach on free play in training.

My coach as suggested when I do an excellent shot just remember the feeling and repeat it next shot. Easier said than done though.

So what I am working on is to look for technical points that increase this feeling if I lose it. Using the body well as in Brett's videos is one key point. Being relaxed in the backswing and pushing off the right leg and fast right hip movement seems the key to increase the explosive feeling for the forehand.

I find one of my biggest issues is psychological. I really have to be aggressive to get the feeling and a lot of time I just do not go for the shot enough and I can restrict my follow through. This happens with open up against backspin on both forehand and backhand again and again.Hopefully with more training this will change.

Feedback welcome.


It's hard work to hit the ball well. You need to read the oncoming ball early to make good position so you can use the body properly. You need to be alert and have a fairly high emotional level because it's hard to hit the ball well when you are lethargic or bored.

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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2020, 09:24 
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wilkinru wrote:
5 days a week I do a 3 hour+ training routine.

Forehand against block (then I block)
Backhand against block (then I block)
Forehand against backspin, partner blocks (being fed, then I do the same for my partner)
Forehand against backspin, I feed the first ball, partner blocks or attacks, play the point (same for partner)
Backhand against backspin, partner blocks (being fed, then I do the same for my partner)
Backhand against backspin, I feed the first ball, partner blocks or attacks, play the point (same for partner)
Then do 1-2 more drills each, short pushing or serve/return(and recovery) specific work. Sometimes away from the table looping for fun.
This all is about 2 hours of work.
Then matches for an hour+.

I've made lots of little discoveries doing this same thing over and over. Feeding backspin and then getting a push back to loop is a great training tool and has really helped my open up loops in games. I think this is nearly the optimal training routine for players at or around my level.

Discoveries in the last month:
I can do chicken wing or extended arm loops. Chicken wing loops tend to go shorter on the table(against backspin) and work a lot better against faster balls (any spin). Longer arm loops are great when there is enough time to execute them.
Backhand against backspin is really hard to do in a match or match like situation. I'm tinkering with technique by coming forward more with my shot. More adjustments required.
Most shots are just me making circles to hit the ball (NL!).


Wow Russ!

What I really like about your routine is, you are playing matches at the end. All of your routines are good and finishing off with matches is the real kicker.

Too many routines without matches sucks. Too many matches with poor technique sucks. You need to combine routines with matches to really benefit.

Winning 60-75% of training matches is generally a good place to be. Losing 80% of matches is bad, unless you've got a stoic approach to losing. Find the right training partners so you win more than you lose. Use a wide range of partners so you learn to adapt to different shots and styles.

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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2020, 09:40 
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NextLevel wrote:
Looks like Russ and I have traded places.

I can now only play once or twice a week. One of those times is coaching on Thursday evening and after I coach, I play some matches with a fellow 2000 to 2100 player (we have been playing each other for years, well over 7 years I think). After the first time we resumed playing I started noticing that I just couldn't maintain the ball quality in rallies to stay in the point. It put so much pressure on my serve and attack game that I accepted that I couldn't train enough to use my sticky rubber setup. Then one day I played like real crap and while you should never place too much emphasis on one day of play, a man's gotta know his limitations...

So I am back to fast blade with softer rubber, non-sticky ESN rubber. Not sure whether Ben and I ever finalized our equipment bet lol but the one thing I appreciated is that if you want to use Chinese rubber, you bgg gotta train a bit. With my new setup I can't drop stuff short, but I can stay in the rally better.

And can anyone remind me why I was so stupid to think that putting sticky rubber on my backhand was a good idea becaus Boll and Ma Long are doing it? My backhand is 25 times better with regular non sticky rubber.

Maybe if I train a lot again, which I doubt will happen anytime in the next 2 to 3 years, I might try sticky rubber again. But right now I will take being able to block the ball from 3 feet off the table to looping the ball from 3 feet off the table.into the net and blocking the ball if out of position with my forehand over having to try my best to strike the ball while it won't get past the net.

Obviously my serve return will suck a bit but I didn't have the footwork to get to the short push on time anyways.


This all makes sense. Using hard rubber requires a decent amount of work.

I can feel the tt world changing. Many are becoming aware that Chinese style rubber is a more professional approach, but it has some serious downside. The downside is that you need to put in the time and learn good technique. Then you need to be training a decent amount to reap the benefits.

If you use hard rubber and you are late to the ball, really bad s*** happens. You end up getting no spin or speed and your shots hit the net. It's quite an ugly feeling to get nothing on the ball. In these moments you start to imagine how much easier things would be if you used boosted T05.

For me, Big Dipper is a really good compromise. It's a Chinese rubber but it's a little more forgiving than DHS. Big Dipper reacts quite quickly to booster (baby oil) and I use this as a gauge to determine how springy the sponge is. T05 reacts immediately to booster, making it the fastest ever rubber. PF4 takes many hours to react to booster, making it the slowest.

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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2020, 09:43 
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wilkinru wrote:
I haven't tried sticky on the backhand either. The flick and power is so hard to give up. I've thought about it a lot but just can't do it. The sticky on the forehand mostly is ideal for touch and return of serve - my forehand has never been that good.


I feel that sticky on the backhand may be the next trend.

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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2020, 09:59 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Wow Russ!

What I really like about your routine is, you are playing matches at the end. All of your routines are good and finishing off with matches is the real kicker.

Too many routines without matches sucks. Too many matches with poor technique sucks. You need to combine routines with matches to really benefit.

Winning 60-75% of training matches is generally a good place to be. Losing 80% of matches is bad, unless you've got a stoic approach to losing. Find the right training partners so you win more than you lose. Use a wide range of partners so you learn to adapt to different shots and styles.



I don't have a huge choice of opposition due to the virus and I'm winning about 80% of the games or more. Not ideal, but is what it is. Sometimes my main partner comes to play and I only win 50-60%.

One other drill we do heaps of is: short to the forehand push feed. Player pushes back short. The 'feeder' can then push long anywhere or push short again to the forehand. The next ball always is long if the previous was pushed short. This is the drill I was missing to handle opposition which can actually push short. Yes I'm thinking of Dan who made me feel pretty clumsy out there.


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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2020, 10:22 
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wilkinru wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Wow Russ!

What I really like about your routine is, you are playing matches at the end. All of your routines are good and finishing off with matches is the real kicker.

Too many routines without matches sucks. Too many matches with poor technique sucks. You need to combine routines with matches to really benefit.

Winning 60-75% of training matches is generally a good place to be. Losing 80% of matches is bad, unless you've got a stoic approach to losing. Find the right training partners so you win more than you lose. Use a wide range of partners so you learn to adapt to different shots and styles.



I don't have a huge choice of opposition due to the virus and I'm winning about 80% of the games or more. Not ideal, but is what it is. Sometimes my main partner comes to play and I only win 50-60%.

One other drill we do heaps of is: short to the forehand push feed. Player pushes back short. The 'feeder' can then push long anywhere or push short again to the forehand. The next ball always is long if the previous was pushed short. This is the drill I was missing to handle opposition which can actually push short. Yes I'm thinking of Dan who made me feel pretty clumsy out there.


Winning 80% is better than winning 20%. It's hard to quit or become despondent when you are winning. The downside is you are going to struggle to improve a lot at 80%.

The no.1 rule is to never put yourself in a situation which will make you quit. This is an individual thing, but I've found that almost no one likes losing bad for extended periods of time.

The exercise you mentioned is along the lines of what I use every day.

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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2020, 12:19 
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Brett Clarke wrote:

The no.1 rule is to never put yourself in a situation which will make you quit. This is an individual thing, but I've found that almost no one likes losing bad for extended periods of time.


I haven't played one point for eight months. If I could start playing tomorrow and lose 1,000 matches in a row I'd still be as happy as a pig in s***.

NL, we don't have a bet on. Which is sad because you ej like clockwork. But I already have three unopened sheets of Battle II (the regular one). Now that some of the tacky has worn off my first sheet I don't like it as much. It is still tackier than aibiss or dignics 09 or pf4. But when it was new it was 3x tackier. It only holds a ball up for like two seconds now. But it doesn't really matter since all I do now is serves.

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