OOAK Table Tennis Forum :: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!

iskandar taib wrote:

Japsican wrote:

Still, I don't think it's intentionally disrespectful, but if people think it is...it is.

Really???

Oh come on. If (some) people think it is, all you can really say is that (some) people think it is.

Iskandar

What's your point? Are you suggesting that only the majority can determine what things are deemed offensive? Humans are all going to differ on what is considered offensive. The rule of cultural sensitivity training at just about every professional organization is to respect that feelings of the person being offended. Even if they are the ONLY one being offended.

Look at racial epithets. There are lots of remarks which are considered offensive to a culture or race, because it's meaning is derogatory to that culture. For example, the "N" word. Many people do not consider that rude or disrespectful. But a person of color would likely feel different. The respectful thing would be to respect that the person considers that to be offensive and not drop an N-bomb. The word "oriental" is another example. I am of asian decent, and not personally offended by it, but I know many that are. Best to not use "oriental" to describe people. Or referring to women as "sweetheart" or "chicks." There are plenty of women that are perfectly fine with those terms. Many are not.

So the idea that because less (some) people are offended it’s some less offensive is the very definition of insensitivity.

Now, obviously I understand that what HT does is not as serious a trespass, but I am challenging the logic of your challenge by using a more egregious offense to illustrate the point.

Author:	iskandar taib [ 15 Jul 2018, 13:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
I think I'd better put the original quote back in to see what I was referring to in the first place. clown wrote: Lets get this clear. Harimoto is talented. But once he opens his mouth, all that talent is gone. iskandar taib wrote: Oh? How do you figure that one out? Iskandar mattfisher wrote: Right?! Like obviously if you play disrespectfully and cho then many many people are gonna go hate you for it And because someone "hate you for it" therefore his "talent is gone"?????? Obviously. Yeah, once people hate him he'll never beat Ma Long again... It's called "Tinkerbell Syndrome"... Surely this isn't what you mean??? Iskandar

Author:	Roy [ 21 Jul 2018, 19:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
Ir this the future of table tennis? Two players close to table pounding as hard as they can and doing rather an mistake than an easy ball. I was not amused by this clip...

Author:	mynamenotbob [ 21 Jul 2018, 20:01 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
Roy wrote: Ir this the future of table tennis? Two players close to table pounding as hard as they can and doing rather an mistake than an easy ball. I was not amused by this clip... You're right. That was awful.

Author:	benc6190 [ 22 Jul 2018, 14:37 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
Whats wrong with it? Is there a full match with better quality?

Author:	Roy [ 22 Jul 2018, 16:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
benc6190 wrote: Whats wrong with it? I guess that nothing is wrong with it... if you like "of the bounce countering TT with lot of early mistakes".

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Harimoto defeats Ma Long! https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33082	Page 3 of 4

Author:	benc6190 [ 24 Jul 2018, 12:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
Table tennis rallies are always short. This match was very one sided, Liang Jingkun winning 11-9 11-4 11-4 11-8. Poor Harimoto =(

Author:	Japsican [ 25 Jul 2018, 03:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
iskandar taib wrote: Japsican wrote: Still, I don't think it's intentionally disrespectful, but if people think it is...it is. Really??? Oh come on. If (some) people think it is, all you can really say is that (some) people think it is. Iskandar What's your point? Are you suggesting that only the majority can determine what things are deemed offensive? Humans are all going to differ on what is considered offensive. The rule of cultural sensitivity training at just about every professional organization is to respect that feelings of the person being offended. Even if they are the ONLY one being offended. Look at racial epithets. There are lots of remarks which are considered offensive to a culture or race, because it's meaning is derogatory to that culture. For example, the "N" word. Many people do not consider that rude or disrespectful. But a person of color would likely feel different. The respectful thing would be to respect that the person considers that to be offensive and not drop an N-bomb. The word "oriental" is another example. I am of asian decent, and not personally offended by it, but I know many that are. Best to not use "oriental" to describe people. Or referring to women as "sweetheart" or "chicks." There are plenty of women that are perfectly fine with those terms. Many are not. So the idea that because less (some) people are offended it’s some less offensive is the very definition of insensitivity. Now, obviously I understand that what HT does is not as serious a trespass, but I am challenging the logic of your challenge by using a more egregious offense to illustrate the point.

Author:	birchamboi [ 25 Jul 2018, 11:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
Japsican wrote: iskandar taib wrote: Japsican wrote: Still, I don't think it's intentionally disrespectful, but if people think it is...it is. Really??? Oh come on. If (some) people think it is, all you can really say is that (some) people think it is. Iskandar What's your point? Are you suggesting that only the majority can determine what things are deemed offensive? Humans are all going to differ on what is considered offensive. The rule of cultural sensitivity training at just about every professional organization is to respect that feelings of the person being offended. Even if they are the ONLY one being offended. Look at racial epithets. There are lots of remarks which are considered offensive to a culture or race, because it's meaning is derogatory to that culture. For example, the "N" word. Many people do not consider that rude or disrespectful. But a person of color would likely feel different. The respectful thing would be to respect that the person considers that to be offensive and not drop an N-bomb. The word "oriental" is another example. I am of asian decent, and not personally offended by it, but I know many that are. Best to not use "oriental" to describe people. Or referring to women as "sweetheart" or "chicks." There are plenty of women that are perfectly fine with those terms. Many are not. So the idea that because less (some) people are offended it’s some less offensive is the very definition of insensitivity. Now, obviously I understand that what HT does is not as serious a trespass, but I am challenging the logic of your challenge by using a more egregious offense to illustrate the point. Of course, you're both correct. Japsican's point is a good one, and a standard that I try to adhere to (and sometimes fail). OTOH, I think Iskandar is pointing to the use of the word "intentionally". How could we ever know HT's intent? Unless he told us what his intent is? My personal opinion is that there is a significant difference between "intentionally disrespectful" and just a plainly annoying kid. His choing annoys the livin' bejesus out me, but I think that's all it is: annoying.

Author:	lasta [ 25 Jul 2018, 14:33 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
I have no problems with the kid's "Cho". I think everyone has their unique way of self motivation and if we get past that and appreciate other aspects of his sportsmanship, then there's not much to complain about. Personally, I particularly enjoy Ai Fukuhara's "Chew" .

Author:	darucla [ 25 Jul 2018, 23:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
I think it was Sakura Mori who made the most noise during the recent UTT competition. Actual, blood-curdling screams, at least two after every point won. And as it was a team event, she screamed for her doubles partner and for the other team members when she wasn't playing. Really, Harimoto is not in the same league. LOL.

Author:	Japsican [ 26 Jul 2018, 05:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
birchamboi wrote: My personal opinion is that there is a significant difference between "intentionally disrespectful" and just a plainly annoying kid. His choing annoys the livin' bejesus out me, but I think that's all it is: annoying. I definitely agree with that, and pointed that out earlier in the thread. I don't think he's intentionally disrespectful, and that is definitely a level less that intentional disrespect. I think it was this thread, not sure, but i mentioned I am coming around on this kid. Still, my grandmother still calls black people "colored". I don't think she means that with any disrespect, but I would also understand why a person of color might not be her biggest fan. And that's all that's going on here.

Author:	skilless_slapper [ 26 Jul 2018, 07:06 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
Has harimoto managed to defeat any quality chopper yet? From the matches I've seen hes always been sliced into silence by them! Yuto m dismantled the poor guy in the games I saw. Rowen filus sent him packing as well.

Author:	iskandar taib [ 03 Aug 2018, 16:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
birchamboi wrote: OTOH, I think Iskandar is pointing to the use of the word "intentionally". How could we ever know HT's intent? Unless he told us what his intent is? I think you can tell if he's being "intentionally disrespectful" by what else he does on the court. I've seen nothing to indicate that he ever disrespects anyone - not his opponent, not the umpire, not his coach or teammates. The opposite is true. By the way, I watched this a couple days ago (but I hate posting from my phone..): Kinda reminds me of all those posts I've seen here saying that Xu Xin is over the hill, doesn't do the RPB loop all that well, penhold is on its way out, etc. etc. etc. REALLY. I think people here tend to read too much into the results of one tournament or one game. Harimoto beats Ma Long ONE TIME and all of a sudden the Chinese are having trouble dealing with players who play close to the table. People who play close to the table are suddenly taking over the world. And they're taking over the world because of the Plastic Ball. Here's the finals, by the way (Harimoto not involved, so it's somewhat off topic in case the On-Topic Police feel they want to wade in... ) Who IS this guy Liu?? Never heard of him. It's an illustration of the depth of table tennis in China that someone you normally never hear off 1) get sent to the Australian Open, and 2) makes it to the final (text changed to white since it's a spoiler). He's not the only one, either - Harimoto was defeated by another relative unknown in an earlier match. In the first video I found it interesting that Harimoto would slide over to the forehand side to take balls with his backhand - perhaps a weakness. And in the second video Xu Xin's playing style often pins him far to the backhand to take balls with his forehand. He's pretty quick to make up for it but he doesn't get every wide ball to his forehand when he's so far over in the other direction. Definitely a weakness, but that doesn't mean he's "over the hill" or "has problems". It definitely was his day. Iskandar

Author:	benc6190 [ 08 Aug 2018, 10:39 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
Liu Dingshuo was top junior player and then played in marvelous 12 tournament, team apac thing, chinese super league, Hungarian open, and now this.

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Author:	iskandar taib [ 08 Aug 2018, 14:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: Harimoto defeats Ma Long!
Here's an excellent (and spectacular) exhibition of off-the-bounce counter-topspin table tennis - AND it's NOT new players, and Harimoto and Hirano Miu are not involved!!! It IS funny how people are now claiming this style of play is (1) new, and (2) invented by Harimoto and Hirano. Actually we've seen a lot of people play like this since I got back into the sport 3 years ago. Iskandar