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PostPosted: 27 May 2019, 03:37 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Weird fella, this Igor. You wonder if he's actually used many of these balls if he says they break easily. He's confusing them with the older cellulose acetate balls, I think - those had a reputation for breaking. These D40+ balls are actually the most resilient I've seen. We've not managed to break one, even. Whereas the old celluloid balls would develop cracks regularly. What happens with these balls is that they start feeling slightly less hard - there's one player in our group who insists on bringing out a new ball every three to four weeks or so because he feels the old ball is "over the hill". The seamless balls had a reputation for being nigh on indestructible, too, but we haven't used that many of them. Never had one of those break, either.

Iskandar
Press some ABS ball with your thumb, forcefully. Give it a decent pressure with your bending thumb/
Take a shot/. Put up the photo on this page. I'd like to survey the resulting dent.

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PostPosted: 27 May 2019, 19:12 
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The cellfree balls have changed the game - no doubt. But does it really matter?
- the good players still are good players
- same as before, good touch can do wonders
- same as before, sometimes speed/spin/touch/consistency/commitment/athletism (expand the list with other criteria) wins you a match or you loose it because of lack of it

Concerning me:
- same as before, there are still players way better than me that I manage to beat (of course, the pimples...)
- same as before, there are some players that I simply can't win against - regardless of balls, rating, ...
- same as before, practice yields results

My conclusion: table tennis is the same as before, some details have changed. Instead of wallowing in self-pity and indulging in the 'good 'ol times' I consider it far more rewarding to accept the challenge and try to adapt.

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PostPosted: 27 May 2019, 19:23 
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How long are you need to play with the new ball in the US or .... ?

Well new ... Here we have to play for atleast 5 years now with the ball ....
Nobody is talking about the 'old' ball anymore.

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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 03:25 
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igorponger wrote:
Press some ABS ball with your thumb, forcefully. Give it a decent pressure with your bending thumb/
Take a shot/. Put up the photo on this page. I'd like to survey the resulting dent.


ROFL. If you see Igor coming, keep your balls hidden. If you don't, he'll be eyeing your balls, waiting until you're not looking and then he'll put a dent in them with his thumb. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Put a dent in ANY ball - I don't care if it's celluloid, cellulose acetate, polyurethane or ABS, whether it's got a seam or not - ANY ball, once dented, is ruined. You can get the dent out (the old method mentioned in schoolbooks was boiling water), but it will never bounce true after that. So what's the point of this "experiment"? To anyone else in the world, the measure of a ball's durability is how long it lasts in play. And by all accounts, the new ABS ball rivals the seamless ball in terms of how long it lasts, and is many times more durable than the ball it replaced. Igor, however, wants to use his thumb to put a dent in the ball to decide what is durable and what isn't.

As I said, bizarre.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 03:59 
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Interesting to hear people's reactions. Obviously, my title for this thread was meant to be exaggerated and provocative, and it's not like I'm seeing 1500 players suddenly beating 2000 players (or even 1800 players beating 2000 players) with the ABS ball, but I guess what I AM saying is that, since the new ball, I've seen a clear percentage increase in the success enjoyed by flat-hitters and loop-drivers, as opposed to loopers and choppers. In light of the fact that the Chinese have even adjusted their technique more towards loop-driving (sharper, shorter ball contact and forward rather than upward force) as a reaction to the new ball, I'm clearly not imagining the problem. I think it's unfortunate because manipulating spin, which was once one of the main weapons choppers could use to win points, isn't nearly the weapon it once was, and so, at least in my view, the game has been dumbed down, making it more purely athletic (how hard and fast you move and hit) and less cerebral.

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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 05:56 
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I have even used an old DHS 40+ abs to play with the hard bat. I blast away and haven't broken yet.

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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 06:54 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
Interesting to hear people's reactions. Obviously, my title for this thread was meant to be exaggerated and provocative, and it's not like I'm seeing 1500 players suddenly beating 2000 players (or even 1800 players beating 2000 players) with the ABS ball, but I guess what I AM saying is that, since the new ball, I've seen a clear percentage increase in the success enjoyed by flat-hitters and loop-drivers, as opposed to loopers and choppers. In light of the fact that the Chinese have even adjusted their technique more towards loop-driving (sharper, shorter ball contact and forward rather than upward force) as a reaction to the new ball, I'm clearly not imagining the problem. I think it's unfortunate because manipulating spin, which was once one of the main weapons choppers could use to win points, isn't nearly the weapon it once was, and so, at least in my view, the game has been dumbed down, making it more purely athletic (how hard and fast you move and hit) and less cerebral.


It's certainly true loopdriving with the ABS ball is a very successful way of playing with it. The loopdriver of our club adores the ball. I like it because it's bounce is more natural, closer to celluloid and it had enough spin to prevent being hit hard.

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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 08:09 
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Serving is dumbed down and less of a weapon also. We mainly use the Nittaku Japan 40+ and have more or less gotten used to it. Those seamless balls are like a whole other game now. They should be banned.

Why are simple plastic table tennis balls $3 and more complex tennis balls $1?

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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 09:24 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Why are simple plastic table tennis balls $3 and more complex tennis balls $1?


DHS 3 star balls:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bonus-P ... 82381.html

20 balls, $11. 55 cents each.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Profess ... 94998.html

12 balls, $25.37. $2+ each.

"3 star" balls.

https://www.tennisexpress.com/wilson-us ... case-36886

72 balls, $79.99 + $11 shipping. $1.25+ each.

I suppose if you cherry pick you can prove anything... :lol: :lol: :lol:

It could be worse.. we could be playing golf :lol: :lol: :lol:

"3 star" balls:

https://www.golfballs.com/Golf-Balls/Ba ... alls_2.htm

12 balls. $47.99 (ignoring shipping) $4 a ball. golfballs.com... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 13:46 
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This is what they use in all the tournaments around here. This price is for three balls and doesn't include tax or shipping. No point in training with another cheaper ball that plays differently when your opponents are preparing with the correct ball.


Attachments:
nittaku.jpg
nittaku.jpg [ 20.33 KiB | Viewed 446 times ]

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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 19:19 
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The answer, then, is it's made in Japan. Everything else (including the "3 star" tennis balls) are made in China. Eventually there's going to be a 50% tariff on them so prices will sort of even out.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 21:42 
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iskandar taib wrote:
The answer, then, is it's made in Japan. Everything else (including the "3 star" tennis balls) are made in China. Eventually there's going to be a 50% tariff on them so prices will sort of even out.

Iskandar


In the USA, they don't put tariffs on leisure products.

The Nittaku ball is used in the USA because the distributor gives free balls to any tournament wanting to use them. It is cheap advertising for the sponsor. All tournament directors will accept free premium balls which helps their budget.

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Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
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PostPosted: 29 May 2019, 03:06 
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I wish we used the Nittaku ABS ball. That one is predictable. We use the Joola ABS ball. It is awful. Despite not actually spinning a lot, it nosedives after loops, hardly bounces after pushes and darts off sharply sideways after sidespin. The quality control is awful, and the balls are often not round, so that they constantly flutter and move unpredictably in mid-air.

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PostPosted: 29 May 2019, 03:22 
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LOOPOVER wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
The answer, then, is it's made in Japan. Everything else (including the "3 star" tennis balls) are made in China. Eventually there's going to be a 50% tariff on them so prices will sort of even out.

Iskandar


In the USA, they don't put tariffs on leisure products.



Er, not yet anyway... :lol: Looks like everything's a target now, if you've been following the news. Jeans today, balls tomorrow...

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 29 May 2019, 11:01 
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iskandar taib wrote:
LOOPOVER wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
The answer, then, is it's made in Japan. Everything else (including the "3 star" tennis balls) are made in China. Eventually there's going to be a 50% tariff on them so prices will sort of even out.

Iskandar


In the USA, they don't put tariffs on leisure products.



Er, not yet anyway... :lol: Looks like everything's a target now, if you've been following the news. Jeans today, balls tomorrow...

Iskandar


I don't think it will happen for leisure products, the USA farmer could be hurt for their exports to China. It will cause inflation in the USA which will devalue the consumer purchasing dollar, effectively lowering wages.

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Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed


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