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PostPosted: 25 Jan 2021, 08:37 
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Table-tennis is the worst spectator sport , especially when it is mostly a third-ball comedy of errors between two attackers, from beginners to pros. Unless when a high level attackers plays a high level defender, but given that defenders have been systematically exterminated (with careful strategic long term planning by the ITTF), that is also out.

For televised matches, maybe it would help at least a little bit for promoting the sport if the non-table-tennis clueless spectator in a country like USA (who thinks table-tennis is not a sport but a basement game of a joke) , if it would be possible to display the spin and speed of the ball at its maximum value , whether at the contact point of the racket or mid-flight or whatever.

In fact it would be even better if you can do it for a zero-star tournament, with the speed and spin displayed on some big screen LCD display on the side.

I have seen speeds displayed in tennis & cricket but not the RPM on the ball out of Nadal's top-spin or an spinner's leg break or off break or in-swinger or out-swinger. Have any such measurements been made in these sports or any other sport ?

OK it may not be that meaningful to display values of spin and speed for each stroke, but it would definitely help if they show some selected few best values at the end of each (long) rally.


Last edited by Hubeer on 27 Jan 2021, 05:41, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: 25 Jan 2021, 17:34 
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What if they figured out how to add a red laser dust trail that lingers for 1/4 second to the ball on the screen like they do in NHL Hockey with the puck?

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PostPosted: 25 Jan 2021, 20:33 
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And the trail changed from red to green if you had backspin on the ball?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2021, 02:47 
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iskandar taib wrote:
And the trail changed from red to green if you had backspin on the ball?

Iskandar


That is very good, though you would then be hurting sidespin's & no spin's(smash) feelings ??


Last edited by Hubeer on 26 Jan 2021, 03:07, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2021, 02:58 
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Der_Echte wrote:
What if they figured out how to add a red laser dust trail that lingers for 1/4 second to the ball on the screen like they do in NHL Hockey with the puck?


Being a former hockey player & not knowing much about ice-hockey, I am not sure what the reason for that is, though it would be cool if they displayed the speed in penalty-corner & penalty-stroke conversions in hockey(And I also find the the shoot-outs in hockey lot of fun, if the game is tied at end of regulation and I wish football did the same). But I am also curious how the trail would help in table-tennis. If it would, then great but I think for the (non-)table-tennis spectator not understanding the amount of spin (then speed) is the bigger problem in table-tennis since it is all nothing but just a smash for a non-table-tennis savvy spectator. (So the trail would essentially be just another spineless (.....oops I meant spinless......a Freudian tongue of the slip) smash in table-tennis. The primary & distinctive (compared to other sports) element of table-tennis is spin. But then again (what else is new) , ITTF wants to R*** table-tennis by not only taking away the spin but also promoting ridiculous nonsense like TTX to make table-tennis look like pickleball.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2021, 11:41 
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A country like the US will never have any interest in TT, because it requires a high degree of skill and talent. Same goes for many other sports like badminton, tennis (which is declining massively in popularity here), chess, and many others.

Americans like dumb sports which dont require thinking or talent. Look at NFL - 5min of actual play in a 2hr game. or baseball, a joke compared to cricket. Nascar, driving in ovals for rednecks.

And they make fun of worlds most popular sports like football.

The coverage of world sport here is pathetic. Olympics are shown as if only the US is competing, they'll show US athletes only and ignore world champions. Same for tennis where for a decade they'd show a Serena Williams replay over live tennis between the top players. Its a joke.

Other sports have zero coverage. On tv or news. America is the most insular, arrogant country in the world and we like to pretend no one else exists.

About your proposal - TT needs to be made more popular outside China. People in general have no clue its the hardest sport in the world. The degree of skill is insane.

A typical match coverage gives zero info. Even the official ITTF videos. The commentators talk like idiots most of the time and have no clue about strategy or what the players are doing.

Compare this to commentary on Chinese channels and they will talk about the match in depth, show player and coach interviews etc. For gods sake I'd be amazed if any English coverage even had a 5min primer on types of spin, strokes, equipment.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2021, 12:31 
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Displaying spin on the screen would be really cool.

Technologically it's probably difficult though. The only way I can see it done is if they put some sort of markers on the ball. They could make invisible to the eye, but visible to a high speed camera when illuminated with invisible light, e.g. UV. The camera would not need to be high resolution, if all it needed to do is count the number of times the marker reflect the light vs time. It would be a really good project!

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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2021, 13:25 
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Hubeer wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
And the trail changed from red to green if you had backspin on the ball?

Iskandar


That is very good, though you would then be hurting sidespin's & no spin's(smash) feelings ??


So you'd change the intensity of the red or green - no spin would be neither red nor green. Sidespin? Maybe make the "tail" biased to one side or another, depending on the direction of sidespin?

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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2021, 13:28 
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Hubeer wrote:
(And I also find the the shoot-outs in hockey lot of fun, if the game is tied at end of regulation and I wish football did the same).


I thought they did the penalty kicks at the end of a tied game? At least, they do in the World Cup.

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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2021, 13:35 
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MrCrispy wrote:
Americans like dumb sports which dont require thinking or talent. Look at NFL - 5min of actual play in a 2hr game. or baseball, a joke compared to cricket. Nascar, driving in ovals for rednecks.


I think you're selling American Football and Baseball short. Both are highly technical and tactical, with myriad ways to do a given thing. In both, the coaching is very, very important, it's the coaches who make the calls, arrange the batting order, etc. - there's a LOT of thinking involved, and play is based on set-pieces. American football IS a lot of fun to watch, and baseball is, too, if you know what's going on and what to look for. I agree with you on Nascar, though (and presumably basketball..).

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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2021, 19:36 
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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2021, 07:33 
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iskandar taib wrote:
MrCrispy wrote:
Americans like dumb sports which dont require thinking or talent. Look at NFL - 5min of actual play in a 2hr game. or baseball, a joke compared to cricket. Nascar, driving in ovals for rednecks.


I think you're selling American Football and Baseball short. Both are highly technical and tactical, with myriad ways to do a given thing. In both, the coaching is very, very important, it's the coaches who make the calls, arrange the batting order, etc. - there's a LOT of thinking involved, and play is based on set-pieces. American football IS a lot of fun to watch, and baseball is, too, if you know what's going on and what to look for. I agree with you on Nascar, though (and presumably basketball..).

Iskandar


You said it yourself, the coaches make the calls, and its all set pieces. This is not a dynamic, fluid game. A game should be played by players, not the fat coach on sideline. The players in this case are like chess pieces, maybe some like to look at them but they are dumb and irrelevant.

I know the rules of American football and cannot imagine anything more boring. Also US sports are designed for infinite timeouts, a break every 5s, its ridiculous. Play real football where players have to think and react and the coach cannot stop the game whenever they bloody feel like it.


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PostPosted: 31 Jan 2021, 04:14 
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If they already have a way to capture spin & speed, that is good. But the spectators are not shown the speed & spin on some display device & videos do not show it either. I do not think they announce the speed and spin periodically, that may actually be annoying. This thread is not about coaches, players & officials. This thread is about being able to hook non-table-tennis savvy spectators to the sport. Also as I said before, displaying the speed is good but displaying spin is more important as it is the primary element of table-tennis (at least illegally boosted top-spin :punch: )


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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2021, 05:18 
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MrCrispy wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
MrCrispy wrote:
Americans like dumb sports which dont require thinking or talent. Look at NFL - 5min of actual play in a 2hr game. or baseball, a joke compared to cricket. Nascar, driving in ovals for rednecks.


I think you're selling American Football and Baseball short. Both are highly technical and tactical, with myriad ways to do a given thing. In both, the coaching is very, very important, it's the coaches who make the calls, arrange the batting order, etc. - there's a LOT of thinking involved, and play is based on set-pieces. American football IS a lot of fun to watch, and baseball is, too, if you know what's going on and what to look for. I agree with you on Nascar, though (and presumably basketball..).

Iskandar


You said it yourself, the coaches make the calls, and its all set pieces. This is not a dynamic, fluid game. A game should be played by players, not the fat coach on sideline. The players in this case are like chess pieces, maybe some like to look at them but they are dumb and irrelevant.

I know the rules of American football and cannot imagine anything more boring. Also US sports are designed for infinite timeouts, a break every 5s, its ridiculous. Play real football where players have to think and react and the coach cannot stop the game whenever they bloody feel like it.


So I'm not going to lie, I somewhat want to see a video of you dribbling a basketball just to see how little talent and skill it requires - you've made some pretty brutal generalizations and I guess you're entitled to that opinion, but you've also discredited large swathes of sports including the incredibly technical golf, and the rising popularity of lacrosse. I guess that didn't fit your narrative. (And on the topic of table tennis, which this is in fact about, it is not a sport of continuous play either, so...)

---------------------------------

Ball tracking being used more widely and monitored would be fairly interesting I think, though I still feel like the camera angles used are the easiest area to really improve viewer experiences. Borrowing for other sports, I think tracking distance traveled, over a point or the course of a game/match, could be a interesting thing as well - though the number of points where that data might pop could still be low overall.

I don't think you'll ever be able to get true RPM data though, even with the new puck tracking in hockey it requires a substantial change to the puck itself, and table tennis balls absolutely don't lend to this well.

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