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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2020, 13:10 
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Hi all,

How much have players been hating on the LP/MP/SP/Anti rubbers around you?

I have seen a lot less of this in California, but what have you been seeing?

In my last tourney (one of my best tourneys) I reached quarters of U2200 in a 4 star tourney and had to play against an Anti player who was a level better. He ended up having 3 levels of touch better than me and I lost 3-0. I really hated on that dude. He had the best touch on his BH with Anti I have ever seen in my life, he twiddled to attack well, and knew how to receive serves. I was competitive, but really not a threat to win. Damn that dude and his skillz.

There is a mother here who plays MP and LP who sticks the bat out there to bring it back and does a little jerk on it. A lot of the U1800 California crowd just want to cream that ball, but mis-time it a lot... after too many misses, they play safe. Against these kind of loose balls, she will side swipe inside out FH with pips, either away or right at opponent... players want to crush this ball 10x more... and more than not, so totally whiff on it or mis-time the attack and it never lands... There as SO DAMN MANY macho-man attacking players under 1800 who SO WANT HER BLOOD they cannot stand it. In league, a victory vs her is grounds for declaring the night a roaring success, despite a 2W - 4L session on their table !!!

Is the LP/Pips/Anti hate a thing, or am I blowing too much smoke on this one?

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2020, 14:45 
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I certainly think it's a real thing, but also find that it mainly happens at the lower levels, not at the level that you're describing.

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2020, 20:53 
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I agree with Alex, but I'll also add I think it's pretty meta-game specific. One of the smaller clubs in which I play only has a handful of members and it's nearly a 50/50 split of inverted and long pips players among the regulars. Each of the pips players use the pips in a dramatically different way: I chop and twiddle and play an all around / modern defensive game, we have a player who plays with long pips on the *forehand* on a thick sponge to attack relentlessly, and we have an OX backhand oriented player who attacks and blocks with the pips close to the table.

We don't get much complaining about the pips because it's clear the pips are being used in diverse ways to suit a variety of styles.

Each club develops its own culture and I think that plays a role in how "junk" rubbers are perceived...

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2020, 21:41 
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Here in the bottom rungs of local league, I started learning how to play with LP on BH to help my team mates get used to it. Of course, it then becomes more difficult for me to pl,ay with inverted, though not impossible. The end result is that my team mates, who never play me in competition are now complaining that my growing success in the league is down to LP, and that's apparently bad. They also don't like training against me (with some exceptions), so are still rabbit-in-headlights poor against LP players on other teams. I have decided not to care what they think.

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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2020, 03:46 
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Complaints at my LP's usually fall on deff ears but I haven't noticed much of late. Usually the people that are even bringing it up are mostly the ones that claim it's easy to play against LP's... until I wreck havoc then they suddenly want to know all my secrets like it's so form of complex science. I brush it off while we all know it's a form of chess that takes to long to explain. :lol:

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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2020, 15:24 
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I think complaints abut "junk rubbers" are more common both in lower classes and amongst younger players. But I think it also has to do with style. Playing close to the table with anti or pips out causes more annoyance than playing as a defender. A defender mostly gets respect and are supposed to use pips. That may even be considered an honest style, while pushblocking is more often considered ugly and somehow dishonest (not a pure or clean style).

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 17:24 
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The hate is more on banned LP's.

Honestly, I love the variation that LP brings.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 17:38 
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haggisv wrote:
I certainly think it's a real thing, but also find that it mainly happens at the lower levels, not at the level that you're describing.


The "Mother" I describe plays depending on what you define as club average in USA, anywhere from 3-6 levels above USA club average (considering local/regional vs national average strength).

Yet, in the big scheme of things, 3-6 levels above average is still low level. Yeah, it is WELL above average and a level 70%+ never achieve in their life...

Yet you JUST GOTTA SEE this mother in action. So totally lack of skill looking strokes, but if you look at her consistency and shot quality (due to weird looking shot, the ball landing, and the opponent so totally forgetting what he just put on the ball, and the unexpected direction of the block or bump...) you look at those things and you gotta give her credit. You just gotta see her strokes in real time real life. A conventional TT coach would be reduced to tears and declare this lady a failure wit zero hope.

Yet, I personally encourage this mother to play just the way she likes as there is potential for her to make California 2000 level (a level maybe 7-8 percent of USA can reach) because if you take the ball early and can place it well, all the time just begging the opponent to attack all wild-eyed with blood lust the Dracula himself would shun... that is pretty much the essence of a disruptive defensive game plan anyway. I encourage her to keep grip loose, go through ball a bit and guide it to a difficult spot... which sometimes is high, slow, weird, but right in the middle of the FH zone just inviting a crush kill attempt... that often misses... that screws with players' heads, so they play safe then she stomps on their manhood attacking... then they get even more reckless, which makes her life easier as she inside must be snickering like Muttley after a good sabotage job.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 17:50 
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You also gotta see how some macho attacking oriented guy players fare vs her and how they go about it in a match and how they all act after LOSING to her.

Some of these dudes are 6' 2' + 250 lb NFL linebacker body types and so totally cannot TOLERATE a loss to her, which is tantamount to the absolute worst personal insult to manhood a dude cannot stand it so damn funny to see the loser talk and excuses and rage and desire for revenge... it is so damn real... so much better watching this than reality shows.

I cannot tell you how many California 1600-1800 dudes who would NEVER approach me and ask for advice, suddenly ask me how to play vs her (I usually win vs her 3-0 no threat to me)….

SO DAMN FUNNY this lady is inspiring people to figure out how to play vs her and how to play vs LP in general… !!!

and to make it even more interesting, one of the dudes asking me for advice on how to win vs her is an LP player himself !!! his LP bump never troubled her (she doesn't topspin) and his FH attack is unreliable... and his BH LP attack was low percentage (until we worked on his biomechanics (use lower arm) (shorter stroke) and step to ball (position, motion, energy).

So, a lady wielding MP/LP with the weirdest looking incorrect looing strokes is so killing a bunch of well above club average dudes that they so want to win vs her that can taste it.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 17:57 
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Def-attack wrote:
I think complaints abut "junk rubbers" are more common both in lower classes and amongst younger players. But I think it also has to do with style. Playing close to the table with anti or pips out causes more annoyance than playing as a defender. A defender mostly gets respect and are supposed to use pips. That may even be considered an honest style, while pushblocking is more often considered ugly and somehow dishonest (not a pure or clean style).


We have a Romanian dude named George at the club who is a hybrid puncher/hitter with his LP and a pick hitter on inverted.

He is around 1700-1800 California and was 2000 during Super Block frictionless era. He is so parked at the table. He gets his share of nets and edges and can be called lucky, but he goes for a lot of lower percentage attacks with the LPs.

I think his best personal satisfaction in Table Tennis is to hit a BH LP winner.

My personal all time favorite thing in TT is to serve to an LP player and watch the LP player not even get the ball back to the net. (Since LP is supposed to be so easy to get a serve back) (LP player still has to rad spin, it is just that there is more leeway for error than inverted)

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 17:59 
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Red_lion wrote:
The hate is more on banned LP's.

Honestly, I love the variation that LP brings.


I hope that my long time posting history shows that I fight for the rights of TT players to play the equipment and style they like, that all are necessary to the sport, and all can have enjoyment, and that our sport needs all styles.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 18:02 
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JSK,

You never saw George at any of the big LA tourneys? He is 5'7 and 260 lbs... hard to miss him (or me).

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2020, 22:28 
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Red_lion wrote:
The hate is more on banned LP's.

Honestly, I love the variation that LP brings.


I don't really think it's all the banned LP's. Particulary not the banned frictionless LP's though for many it seems that way. I think the hate is mainly the lack of knowledge between different types of LP's and the banned LP's that were frictionless on top and grippy on the sides of the pips and vice versa.

Lack of knowledge is so understandable it's sad. When I converted to LP's for the first time I played around junior national level and only after becoming a senior player I learned the differences on my own. And that lack if knowledge was while actually playing LP's for years. Even my coaches as a junior didn't know much about LP's. All they knew was that if I wanted to continue to advance at the junior level I had to do something to slow down the speed of the game so I could keep up physically (yeah they didn't know much about physical training either but they had other great qualities), so they got me a bunch of LP's until we found something that matched my style of that time (which nowadays is the modern defender style). A lot of clubs just don't have coaches with the right knowledge about less regular rubbertypes. And this is a problem throughout multiple countries.

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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2020, 01:18 
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Der_Echte wrote:
JSK,

You never saw George at any of the big LA tourneys? He is 5'7 and 260 lbs... hard to miss him (or me).


Never been to the big LA tourneys. I'm SJ/Philly based.

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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2020, 17:12 
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Don't know why I though U was LA based... then you prolly run into Next Level a time or three.

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