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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2013, 19:37 
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This is a great thread... thought I might give a little bump, see if we can think of any new ones. ;)

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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2013, 00:38 
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Foot stamping. Can I do it? I'm not doing it with the intent to disrupt the opponent, it just happens.

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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2013, 02:16 
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VeganPlayer wrote:
Hi all. I was an empire, and we empires are kidding about the most strange cases.

A very weird case is this:

What happens if a ball remains stopped on a net post in a middle of a point?

What do you think? (It was happed once at least). :lol:


Yes, very odd. It argues for the design of net gear without flat upper surfaces.

That said, whoever it was who last struck the ball loses the point because he or she has failed to make the ball touch the opponent's court which is a fundamental requirement of a legal return. No legal return (or serve) means you lose the point.

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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2013, 08:01 
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THE GAMEr wrote:
Foot stamping. Can I do it? I'm not doing it with the intent to disrupt the opponent, it just happens.

There is no rule against it, but if the umpire deems it's disruptive to the game, even if that is not your intent, you can still get warning and lose points if it continues. I've never seen this happen though.

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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2013, 08:06 
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Quote:
VeganPlayer wrote:
Hi all. I was an empire, and we empires are kidding about the most strange cases.

A very weird case is this:

What happens if a ball remains stopped on a net post in a middle of a point?

What do you think? (It was happed once at least). :lol:


Quote:
wturber said:
Yes, very odd. It argues for the design of net gear without flat upper surfaces.

That said, whoever it was who last struck the ball loses the point because he or she has failed to make the ball touch the opponent's court which is a fundamental requirement of a legal return. No legal return (or serve) means you lose the point.


I don't believe that the point has finished yet as, after hitting the net / net assembly, the ball has not:
hit the table;
hit anything other than the table.

So as I have posted before, I as the umpire would go and nudge the net assembly until the ball comes off it, and then call a let for outside interference, whether the ball dropped on to the table or the floor. I would then give myself a yellow card :)

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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2013, 08:47 
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Retriever wrote:
Quote:
VeganPlayer wrote:
Hi all. I was an empire, and we empires are kidding about the most strange cases.

A very weird case is this:

What happens if a ball remains stopped on a net post in a middle of a point?

What do you think? (It was happed once at least). :lol:


Quote:
wturber said:
Yes, very odd. It argues for the design of net gear without flat upper surfaces.

That said, whoever it was who last struck the ball loses the point because he or she has failed to make the ball touch the opponent's court which is a fundamental requirement of a legal return. No legal return (or serve) means you lose the point.


I don't believe that the point has finished yet as, after hitting the net / net assembly, the ball has not:
hit the table;
hit anything other than the table.


Right. But there is no rule that says it has to hit something else for the point to end. It merely has to fail to contact the opponent's court. Once the ball becomes motionless and has not contacted the opponent's court, it is obvious that the player has failed to make a correct return (2.7.1 not satisfied) and the umpire awards a point based on 2.10.1.2.

2.7 THE RETURN
2.7.1 The ball, having been served or returned, shall be struck so that it passes
over or around the net assembly and touches the opponent's court, either directly or after touching the net assembly.

2.10 A POINT
2.10.1 Unless the rally is a let, a player shall score a point
2.10.1.1 if an opponent fails to make a correct service;
2.10.1.2 if an opponent fails to make a correct return;




Retriever wrote:
So as I have posted before, I as the umpire would go and nudge the net assembly until the ball comes off it, and then call a let for outside interference, whether the ball dropped on to the table or the floor. I would then give myself a yellow card :)


Yes, a funny notion. But not necessary.

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PostPosted: 17 Oct 2013, 15:54 
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I would agree with turber on this one. The ball is already motionless.

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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2013, 04:44 
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Nebur wrote:
my left hand always follows the movement of the ball a bit after I throw it up. It doesn't conceal the ball in any way for the opponent, but it does follow the balls trajectory a bit, which might give the impression I don't throw it high up enough.

Is there any rule on this? Should I somehow keep my left hand steady or away. I know it's illegal to conceal the ball in anyway too but it's not the case. Nobody ever had a problem with the way I do my fast serve before


I have a similar serve, a serve I'm noted for in my playing circles. It's basically just a fast no spin or light topspin serve from my BH corner. I then direct the serve to the opponent's BH Corner, BH sideline, FH corner, or elbow. It's actually one of my best serves.

When I toss the ball up, my toss hand is directly in front of my body. After the ball leaves my hand, I then turn my toss hand sideways and follow the ball upward so my toss hand and ball are at about the same height for at least the first few inches of the toss. But my hand never follows the ball all the way to the top of the toss.

The only time I've been called on that serve was when I was in the finals and had an umpire who was trying to qualify for the next higher level of umpire certification. He called me for obstructing his view of the serve (Rule 2.6.6) claiming that my toss hand kept him from observing the ball toss (my toss hand would be between him and the ball). He even called me once when I was on the opposite side which meant that my toss hand was on the opposite side of the ball from the umpire!

I would argue that the umpire could see the toss as the ball leaves my open hand, beginning its upward ascent before I move my hand sideways and then raise it with the rising ball. He could then observe the ball above my toss hand to determine if the toss was 6 inches or not. So IMO, I'm not doing anything that would prevent him from seeing that the toss started by leaving my open hand or that the ball didn't travel the required 6 inches. And I certainly can't see any justification for calling that when I'm on the opposite side where the umpire has a clear view of the ball throughout the service motion. I think I just got a picky umpire that was trying to prove his worth.

Larry


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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2013, 07:25 
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larrythoman wrote:
I would argue that the umpire could see the toss as the ball leaves my open hand, beginning its upward ascent before I move my hand sideways and then raise it with the rising ball. He could then observe the ball above my toss hand to determine if the toss was 6 inches or not. So IMO, I'm not doing anything that would prevent him from seeing that the toss started by leaving my open hand or that the ball didn't travel the required 6 inches. And I certainly can't see any justification for calling that when I'm on the opposite side where the umpire has a clear view of the ball throughout the service motion. I think I just got a picky umpire that was trying to prove his worth.

Larry


I agree. It seems like that umpire didn't understand the rules.

I serve primarily from my backhand and have had people tell me at times that I don't toss high enough. But I've looked at video, and I easily toss eight or more inches routinely. I think the fact that I too tend to follow the ball up and down with my hand and my body gives a visual impression of a lower toss.

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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2013, 05:53 
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I've returned to table tennis (social only at the moment) last year and had a 30 year gap and have a few questions. :)

When you throw the ball and fail to hit the ball ;) - is that a point for the receiver?
When you serve the ball and it hits the line/side of the table (receiver's end) - is that a fault?
When you serve the ball and it hits the line/end of table (receiver's end) - is that a fault?

Hope you can help. :)


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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2013, 06:29 
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The serve begins with the toss so if you do not hit it, point for the receiver.
Hitting the side line or end line is a good serve. :)


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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2013, 07:00 
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Thanks. And if the ball hits the line/edge of table?


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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2013, 08:12 
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spinspin wrote:
Thanks. And if the ball hits the line/edge of table?

Then it's an excellent point, especially if you can do it consistently! :clap:

So yes it's definitely a valid serve if it hits the lines or edges. Only if it hits the net on serve (and only on serve) it is a 'let' and you need to serve again (as many times as it takes and you lose no points for this).

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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2013, 22:24 
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haggisv wrote:

So yes it's definitely a valid serve if it hits the lines or edges. Only if it hits the net on serve (and only on serve) it is a 'let' and you need to serve again (as many times as it takes and you lose no points for this).


Thanks again. Two more small questions. If your opponent plays a ball that you can't return but it accidentaly hits your bat (before it falls to the ground) is that a point for the opponent?

My second question is about the serve. I saw some pictures on a website about how to hold your hand. I understand your hand on which you place the ball needs to be flat and the ball needs to be on your palm, but does the thumb also need to stick out? Or is that small detail not important?


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2013, 22:54 
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spinspin wrote:

Thanks again. Two more small questions. If your opponent plays a ball that you can't return but it accidentaly hits your bat (before it falls to the ground) is that a point for the opponent?

My second question is about the serve. I saw some pictures on a website about how to hold your hand. I understand your hand on which you place the ball needs to be flat and the ball needs to be on your palm, but does the thumb also need to stick out? Or is that small detail not important?


Does anyone have the answers for me. I know they're only small questions but it would be good to know.


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