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New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game?
https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=27830		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  Torsten [ 12 May 2015, 00:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
Yes, basically these two, and nothing else. And pretty short. For example, if the player seems too far from the table, either the coach just says "closer" - and not "you must play closer to the table...". Or there is a brief hand signal (like pulling something) to express the same. In no case have I, personally, observed talking or hand signals going on for more than 1-2 seconds. In no case have I seen the focus of the opponent being interrupted. Again, just speaking for Germany.
Author:  TraditionalTradesman [ 12 May 2015, 00:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
Torsten wrote:
Again, just speaking for Germany.

Yeah, if I can stereotype here, you Germans are generally much more well-mannered and well-behaved than some of us in the more self-expressive, less restrained Anglophone sphere, especially here in the U.S. In any event, I'll be curious to see what happens with this rule at the international level, where players are more focused on winning at all costs.
Author:  lecridupongiste [ 12 May 2015, 00:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
Thanks again, Torsten. I'll have to try and watch a full TTBL match (and not just the highlights) and hope to hear some of those instructions.

Anyway, I don't think this new rule a good idea. Too much emphasis on the coach.
Does anyone have the full text of this new rule ?
Author:  AA [ 12 May 2015, 06:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
well...i also dont think its a good idea objectively, since it puts more emphasis on the coach...however: if the player/his coach speaks a foreign language for the referee, there is no way for the referee to determine whether he is coaching him or just cheering his player on..same counts for hidden gestures/signals..so if this rule has something good, it will create an even playing field.
Author:  shortpips [ 16 May 2015, 00:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
I think this is a terrible idea. There are many players who like to delay the game with all kinds of gamesmanship if they are on a bad run of points, or if their opponent is a player who likes to play at a quick tempo. This just gives them a valid excuse. I know a number of players who would seek advice at every point interval.

There is also the issue of the overbearing coach with the Junior player, who now will be allowed to browbeat their 'prodigy' at every point. Instead of just being able to wail at them between games as is now the case. Is there a time limit to this between points?
Author:  TraditionalTradesman [ 16 May 2015, 00:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
Agree entirely, Shortpips. This is consistent with my point that while most players are reasonable people with decent sportsmanship, there are always the crazies looking for every opportunity to gain an edge and the whacko parents and coaches who'll do the same. These people will use this rule to drag down the level of sportsmanship for everyone.
Author:  haggisv [ 17 May 2015, 16:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
This makes me wonder if the ITTF even considers the impact of rule changes at the lower levels...
Author:  mynamenotbob [ 18 May 2015, 16:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
haggisv wrote:
This makes me wonder if the ITTF even considers the impact of rule changes at the lower levels...

I've never seen evidence that they've ever cared even remotely about how they abuse the game's recreational players.

The ITTF is all about 1) trying to profitably run a professional league, 2) conspiring with manufacturers to squeeze the maximum revenue through equipment bans and rule changes, and 3) manipulating the IOC into the largest payouts possible.
Author:  Retriever [ 19 May 2015, 12:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
Our district competition (pennants) currently has a local by-law that doesn't allow time-outs. We will probably add another one about no coaching between points when the time comes.
Author:  haggisv [ 10 Sep 2018, 09:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
Did anyone see the US Open tennis women's finals?

This is what Serena said:

Quote:
Serena - “I didn’t get coaching,” “I don’t cheat! I didn’t get coaching. How can you say that? You owe me an apology. I have never cheated in my life!”

“You are attacking my character,” she continued. “You will never ever ever be on another court of mine as long as you live.”

“You stole a point from me; you’re a thief, too,” she insisted.

Serena's Coach - “I’m honest, I was coaching."


These were the violations Serena received:
- First: Serena´s coach giving instructions from the stands, he admitted it later. Warning.
- Second: Serena smashing a racket in frustration. Code violation. One point lost.
- Third: Serena calling Ramos a thief. Code violation. One game lost.

I don't remember this ever happening in TT, and now that coaching in-between points is allowed, it's not going to happen either.
Author:  Retriever [ 10 Sep 2018, 11:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
The situations that can occur for between points coaching are not always black and white. There is an umpire's guide that details those situations such as a player kicking a ball back towards their coach's corner etc. It is apparently somewhere here:

http://www.ittf.com/URC/PDF/ITTF_URC_FAQ.pdf

They are not always black and white.
Author:  Cobalt [ 10 Sep 2018, 12:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
The coach also said smashing a racquet is not that bad. I disagree. Is it any different to an U13 table tennis player throwing and smashing their bat?

I watched the whole thing and think her behaviour was out of line and got what she deserved.
Author:  mynamenotbob [ 10 Sep 2018, 12:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
The only thing is if everyone coaches during the game and they never call it, then all of a sudden they do - that's kind of bogus. But her reaction was nuts. Bad calls happen in sports all the time. You move on.
Author:  iskandar taib [ 10 Sep 2018, 14:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
nathanso wrote:
I oppose this change, but I've opposed mid-match coaching in any form since I started playing tournaments. Reason? Table tennis has so much deception involved that a coach can have an all-too-significant impact on a match's outcome by helping his player adapt to an otherwise insurmountable technique or tactic.

In a tournament match, "run what you brung" should apply to a player's paddle and also to his brain.


Isn't that the whole point of even having a coach, though? :lol:

I wasn't even aware that coaching is now allowed between points. I've never seen anyone confer with a coach other than during times out and in between games. But at those times I see coaches doing exactly the above - helping the player adapt to some situation. No, I can't actually hear what they're saying (it's often in Chinese or Japanese after all), but what else COULD they be saying??

Iskandar
Author:  SuperHappyFunSlider [ 10 Sep 2018, 14:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: New ITTF coaching-between-points rule - bad for the game
I am a big fan of "the rules are there for a reason". I will follow the rules to a tee - but if the rules say I can coach my players between points, you better believe I'm hollering and yelling and doing what I need to do to motivate my player if I'm in the corner (juniors in particular).

However Serena - it's a big ol snowball. started with the "coaching" and then her emotions got the best of her. I think the big that is (rightfully) being blown up is that if she were a Male player, would the umpire have done the same thing?

Food for thought.
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