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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2019, 07:49 
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Weikert promised "transparency," but there seems to be even less of that now than under Sharara.

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PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 16:10 
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Retriever wrote:
Although I oppose Pushblocker in some things, I agree with him that any introduction of friction tests for pimple rubber at any tournament governed by ITTF rules and regulations is legally indefensible, as the so-called minimum friction rule for pimple rubber is only for manufacturers to have their rubber approved, not for testing at tournaments. For it to be tested at tournaments there would need to be a change to the laws of table tennis which would be voted on at an AGM and require more than a simple majority to pass.


I suppose you could make a case that it's to determine if any treatments have been applied to the rubber post-purchase, as per the "no alterations" rule (which IS a rule, like it or not). The same as would apply if they come up with some test for boosters.

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PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 16:24 
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I wrote:
Quote:
Although I oppose Pushblocker in some things, I agree with him that any introduction of friction tests for pimple rubber at any tournament governed by ITTF rules and regulations is legally indefensible, as the so-called minimum friction rule for pimple rubber is only for manufacturers to have their rubber approved, not for testing at tournaments. For it to be tested at tournaments there would need to be a change to the laws of table tennis which would be voted on at an AGM and require more than a simple majority to pass.

iskandar wrote:
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I suppose you could make a case that it's to determine if any treatments have been applied to the rubber post-purchase, as per the "no alterations" rule (which IS a rule, like it or not). The same as would apply if they come up with some test for boosters.


Yes, but that is saying that only treatments can cause a loss of friction. Pushblocker's point is that in addition to treatments, mere age and also fair wear and tear can also cause loss of friction. Even playing using a rubber indoors for as little as 5 minutes, or even just having the rubber out of its package will cause its friction to decrease. Failing a minimum friction test does not definitively mean that a rubber has been treated.

The current booster situation with manufacturers allowed to supply rubber already boosted but player administered booster being illegal is another can of worms.

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PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 18:17 
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I suppose, for that matter, treatments that INCREASE friction would also be prohibited... :lol:

There would be two ways to approach this - 1) You could have a table of "baseline values" for each and every topsheet out there. Any deviation + or - within predetermined limits would be prohibited. or 2) You can set wide "above" and "below" limits - these would be levels of friction which would be a cause of concern. At the lower end, I suppose, you could use the level stipulated as the minimum for rubber qualification at the manufacturer level. The high end would be, oh, I dunno.. something short of supergluing the ball to the rubber. Then you'd only really test when there's suspicion of alteration. So you could theoretically "legally" alter your rubbers unless they exceed these limits. If your rubber is old, it'll change somewhat, but it won't change so much that it would exceed the limits, and if it does you should change it anyway. To me the second option makes more sense.

I'm sure there are some who are gnashing their teeth at the very idea of ITTF doing this... or ANYTHING... you know who you are.. and Igor's thinking of ways of elaborating on this to make it more extreme... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 19:38 
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Text removed for some legal issues.
SORRY.


Last edited by igorponger on 29 Aug 2019, 19:14, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 20:18 
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Meanwhile manufacturers are free to continue selling rubbers containing deadly banned VOCs.

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PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 22:31 
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Also, meanwhile, the slippery "frictionless" anti spin rubbers are completely fine.
This all makes no sense. Honestly, though, I'm not concerned about it for myself. Even at 4 star events here in the U.S., I cannot remember the last time I had a rubber tested. I don't treat my pips and I tend to change them out on a regular basis, but if I did have an older sheet on my blade and it had, over time due to use, dropped below, neither I nor anyone else would be aware of it.
What about tests of old inverted rubbers? I've played people in tournaments who have what look to be 10 year old rubbers that were normal inverted when they were new, but act in an odd way now due to age. Are they going to test to ensure a tackiness or grip level for inverted?
The pips witch hunt continues, I guess. You'd think that there were a massive amount of long pips players at the top of the world rankings.

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PostPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 22:34 
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■ Whether resulting from natural wear or from deliberate treatments, all the rubbers having friction below ITTF technical standard shall be disqualified from the match and player has to play with another racket.

If they ever ban the natural wear and tear , some LP players may stop playing in competitions forever.We , amateurs , cannot afford to buy a new rubber every time it loses the estimated friction by the ITTF standards.How do we know if the rubber is illegal after using it for some months? .

It is clearly obvious the ITTF wants to kill the lp game forever both for cheaters and even those who abide by the regulations . We cannot let this happen and must force the ITTF to change this ludicrous policy.

For example, stop playing in competitions making the federations earn much less money.Stop buying products from the different brands so they have massive losses.Convince the pros to help us in this cause if not, tt will be like the circus.The amateur world is the one that makes tt alive, the pros are just the show business. Especially,brands live on US - the amateurs- .


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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 07:48 
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I will be waiting, with shares in a popcorn manufacturer, for Pushblocker (other personages available) to be defaulted for this in a tournament in the USA. On second thoughts I should get shares in the legal firm he uses as well.

I am still trying to find the minutes for ITTF's 2019 AGM & BoD meetings. I have used the contact option on the ITTF web site to ask this.

Having said that, the agendas for both meetings didn't seem to have anything about this change to leaflet T9.

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PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 02:35 
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charmander defender wrote:
■ Whether resulting from natural wear or from deliberate treatments, all the rubbers having friction below ITTF technical standard shall be disqualified from the match and player has to play with another racket.

If they ever ban the natural wear and tear , some LP players may stop playing in competitions forever.We , amateurs , cannot afford to buy a new rubber every time it loses the estimated friction by the ITTF standards.How do we know if the rubber is illegal after using it for some months? .

It is clearly obvious the ITTF wants to kill the lp game forever both for cheaters and even those who abide by the regulations . We cannot let this happen and must force the ITTF to change this ludicrous policy.

For example, stop playing in competitions making the federations earn much less money.Stop buying products from the different brands so they have massive losses.Convince the pros to help us in this cause if not, tt will be like the circus.The amateur world is the one that makes tt alive, the pros are just the show business. Especially,brands live on US - the amateurs- .


I suppose (adding fuel to the fire) I should point out that "Whether resulting from natural wear or from deliberate treatments, all the rubbers having friction below ITTF technical standard shall be disqualified" is not the same as "ban(ning) the natural wear and tear". It's only natural wear and tear that is so extreme that it reduces friction below the approved level that is "banned". And if it were possible that "natural wear and tear" could cause such a big reduction in friction, you wouldn't have people trying to do it by using UV light, or special juice, etc.

One must admit.. Igor's trolling has really succeeded in stirring up a tempest in a teacup here, with his dubious "evidence", which I must remind you, was posted on a website of doubtful provenance. Heck, he might have written it himself (or got someone to write it). I actually find the above quite amusing.. really, I mean.. "kill the LP game forever". "We cannot let this happen.... force the ITTF to change this ludicrous policy." I suppose we would first need to determine if there really IS a policy. And that would require more than a couple of web pages which may or may not be genuine.

Even if it does happen, if ITTF starts testing bats for friction (or rather, the lack of it), do you REALLY think your racket's going to be tested at your next league night? Or even if you're playing in the U-2000 at the US Open? Heck no. You will be able to continue playing with whatever pips you have as long as it's listed in the LARC, even if it is five years old and has been sitting in your hot car the entire time. Are you REALLY going to "stop buying products"? REALLY? What are you going to play with? Huieson? What about the pros? The pros won't care, no one uses the rubbers in question at that level anyway, and THEY certainly don't use them until the pips drop off, or put them out in the noonday sun.

To be sure, even if your bat will never get tested, ITTF's policies and rules DO have an impact, even on lower level players. Try playing in your local league with a one-color bat, for instance. You can't, because ITTF passed a rule that says you can't. Your opponent would have a fit and refuse to play against you, for starters. You can't even BUY those frictionless long pips with the epoxy smeared on the pips any more, because ITTF deemed them to be too frictionless. And you can't smear the epoxy on yourself, because your clubmates will see it and you'd get shunned on club nights, especially if you're good enough to beat them anyway. (On the other hand, if you're a lousy player and lose to everyone, you can play with anything you like.. :lol: ) As for "frictionless anti" being "unfair".. why would it be, if YOU can buy them, as well as anyone else can? If ITTF passed a rule saying that only, say, the Chinese could use such rubbers, then that would be unfair.

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PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 10:04 
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SCIENCE of MERCHANDISING..

Most of the common populace are known to use a sole pimples sheet for around a year or even longer., and they would never got bothered to replace the dead stuff for a new one.
It is no good at all for the rubber makers, suppliers and, ultimately, for the rubber vendors .
Little wonder, all the world's major manufactories got now most interested in such a good thing as Friction Tester , and Nittaku Takkyu Corporation® is now the very foremost applicant to ITTF, willing to invest a lot in developing an affordable F-tester, likewise they willing to distribute the product worldwide at large.

Seeing the fact that players are now strictly forbidden of using those shitty low-friction pimples, all the Pimplers have to replace their rubbers at more often times, let's say in every 3 three months rather than every 18 months.
This portable Nittaku Friction Tester is going to be under 30 USD, and every club admin could afford the such easely. This nifty-shaped Friction Tester is the best promissive instrument to entirely eradicate those substandard pimples outward from the sport of table tennis, I believe.



Be happy.

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Last edited by igorponger on 01 Sep 2019, 07:13, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 11:24 
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I wouldn't scan that QR Code if I were you. Probably leads to so some Russian scam ransomware website.

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PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 11:40 
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Still waiting for ITTF AGM & BoD Meeting minutes to surface ...

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PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 13:52 
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Wouldn't AGM minutes be public? Not sure about BoD minutes, though. If they aren't that provides an opportunity for trolls to make up their own to be "leaked".

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PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 20:53 
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If the friction test is going to be introduced, sales of pimples rubbers are no doubt going to increase significantly, because players will want to make sure their rubber remains above the minimum friction level... an innocent 'by-product' of this scheme or is this part of the master plan? :devil: :lol:

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