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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2016, 05:56 
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mac33 wrote:
I am unble to answer many of he questions put forward as I simply have no understanding of how navigation works.

However,when I look out to Rottnest island 18 km from the Perth coast - I can see it clearly.

At a distance of 18 Kms - it should be around 90 feet below the horizon looking at it from sea level.


No, at Rottnest's elevation, the distance to the horizon is 24km. Rottnest Island isn't a 2-dimensional sheet floating on the sea…so you have produced evidence for a globe-shaped Earth.

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My friend went on a holiday to Malaysia recently. He went on a trip to Fifi island (spelling).

It's 46km off the coast of Phuket he tells me. On the way back to Phuket on the ferry he could see the whole of the island nearly all the way back,short of the last few Kms.

Now were the earth a globe - of course that could not be possible.


Again, the islands are not 2-dimensional. Phi Phi Viewpoint is 180m above sea level. Distance to horizon: 48km. Less for lower parts of the islands. Matches really well with your friend's observation. You have again produced supporting evidence for a globe-shaped Earth.

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Water in a calm natural state can never bend.

According to the globe model there is 3950 miles of total curvature. Now as the vast majority of the earths surface is made up of water - our sea water would have to bend thousands and thousands of miles in total.

I believe water can never bend even one inch in a calm unaltered state.


Liquid water doesn't have to "bend" to suit the Earth's curvature, it only has to obey the laws of physics like everything else. Solid water doesn't have to bend indefinitely, it can fracture or re-liquefy as needed.

If you want to make sweeping scientific claims that require whole branches of science to be invalid, you should be able to demonstrate some understanding of the science in the first place, otherwise how are you going to replace massive swathes of established physical, chemical, geological and biological knowledge?

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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2016, 14:31 
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mac33 wrote:
I believe water can never bend even one inch in a calm unaltered state.

I'm struggling to understand why you can't believe something which you can verify every single time you pour a glass of water. If you look closely at the surface of the water, you'll see a meniscus: a curved surface caused by water tension.

The curved surface of the oceans, however, is not caused by surface tension but by gravity. (I assume you believe gravity is real, because if it wasn't we'd all be floating off into the outer space you don't believe in.) All objects on the surface of the globe are pulled towards the earth's core, regardless of where they are. Water in the South Pacific and water in the North Atlantic are both pulled towards the centre. It's not that difficult really.


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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2016, 14:33 
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mac33 wrote:
I am unble to answer many of he questions put forward as I simply have no understanding of how navigation works.


Sorry Mac, but you have just shown admission that you don't have the knowledge to make a justified claim that the earth is flat. As Hangdog has correctly pointed out, height above sea level makes a big difference on what can be seen or not seen around th earth's curve. And Navigation relies on this and many other characteristics of a globe to work. Lighthouses for example are marked for their height on navigation charts so ships will be able to verify the distance from them when they come into view (they also blink in their own morse code to identify themselves if anyone is interested too lol). Without all the required knowledge. one simply shouldn't decide something is fact based on the appearance of something to be true. Of course I realise that people use this to their advantage to "pull the wool" over others' eyes in this world, and therefore we should be suspicious of things when they don't seem to "add up". But on this one, I think you need to concede, the earth ain't flat my friend.

Oh and I saw a video on youtube featuring the picture across Lake Michigan to Chicago. The guy who took the photo was not at sea level, he was up on sand dunes quite high above sea level. I think it explains his picture.

On a lot of the "Flat Earth" theories presented on Youtube, I've noticed that as soon as something is said that seems to have an element of conspiracy to it, they latch onto it, whether they take it out of context or not. For example, there is a statement made by Admiral Bird about his antarctic expedition where he says there's land beyond the south pole as big as the USA that's unexplored. They cut him off there and extrapolate this statement to say there is hidden land on earth. But what the man meant (when he said it in 1947) and went onto say in other videos of it was Antarctica itself has not been fully explored....not that there were other lands beyond Antarctica as the Flat Earthers choose to believe.

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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2016, 14:36 
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birchamboi wrote:
mac33 wrote:
I believe water can never bend even one inch in a calm unaltered state.

I'm struggling to understand why you can't believe something which you can verify every single time you pour a glass of water. If you look closely at the surface of the water, you'll see a meniscus: a curved surface caused by water tension.

The curved surface of the oceans, however, is not caused by surface tension but by gravity. (I assume you believe gravity is real, because if it wasn't we'd all be floating off into the outer space you don't believe in.) All objects on the surface of the globe are pulled towards the earth's core, regardless of where they are. Water in the South Pacific and water in the North Atlantic are both pulled towards the centre. It's not that difficult really.



Don't know what Mac believes about gravity, but Flat Earthers don't believe in it. They believe it is simply the density of matter that holds things down. They demonstrates this by showing how different liquids sit atop of each other in a flask and a bolt drops to the bottom.

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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2016, 15:14 
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birchamboi wrote:
The curved surface of the oceans, however, is not caused by surface tension but by gravity. (I assume you believe gravity is real, because if it wasn't we'd all be floating off into the outer space you don't believe in.) All objects on the surface of the globe are pulled towards the earth's core, regardless of where they are. Water in the South Pacific and water in the North Atlantic are both pulled towards the centre. It's not that difficult really.


No, it's because the (flat) Earth is in constant acceleration of 1 g in the vertical direction... :lol:

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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2016, 23:51 
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The best Youtube explanation I've found of why the earth is NOT FLAT and is indeed elliptical (the correct term) in shape! Well worth watching and thinking through Mac.


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2016, 02:01 
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That opening photo... It's a polar projection of the Earth. If that's what the "flat Earth" looks like, then it'd take a lot less time to "circumnavigate" at the equator than it does to circle Antarctica! It'd take FOREVER to get from Australia to New Zealand! :lol:

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2016, 11:14 
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I've just watched the video Reb suggested. I do love the suggestion that The United Nations flag shows us what the earth really looks like - according to the flat earthers. Really??? Really???

According to that map, it would take less time to fly from Melbourne to Jakarta than from Melbourne to Christchurch. The airlines are seriously ripping me off!!!

I was going to ask some pointed questions about how the early navigators managed to do the things they did if the earth was really flat, but decided instead to take the excellent advice of the surveyor. I'm going to go outside and look up and look around. And then I'll probably give thanks that I live in a world that isn't flat.


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2016, 11:18 
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Reb wrote:
Quote:
The best Youtube explanation I've found of why the earth is NOT FLAT and is indeed elliptical (the correct term) in shape! Well worth watching and thinking through Mac.


<nitpick>And here was I thinking that the Earth was an oblate spheroid. I thought (somewhat elliptically :) ) that elliptical was somewhat two dimensional and usually applied to an orbit of a planet, not the shape of the planet itself. </nitpick>

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2016, 16:15 
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Retriever wrote:
Reb wrote:
Quote:
The best Youtube explanation I've found of why the earth is NOT FLAT and is indeed elliptical (the correct term) in shape! Well worth watching and thinking through Mac.


<nitpick>And here was I thinking that the Earth was an oblate spheroid. I thought (somewhat elliptically :) ) that elliptical was somewhat two dimensional and usually applied to an orbit of a planet, not the shape of the planet itself. </nitpick>



Oh you're just trying to Retrieve something for the sake of the argument here, let's just call it a globe and be done with it! :P :lol:

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2016, 21:22 
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birchamboi wrote:
According to that map, it would take less time to fly from Melbourne to Jakarta than from Melbourne to Christchurch. The airlines are seriously ripping me off!!!


Ah.. I figured it out.. I think. The Earth is a plane, only that it's like a Mercator projection. Distances aren't always the same, when you're close to the North Pole, a mile is only a few feet long, while near the South Pole a mile is really several hundred miles long. But when you measure something, it magically appears to be what you THINK it is (because your yardstick has actually multiplied in length, though you can't detect it, since you, too, have increased in length..). Since this is the case, actual speeds near the South Pole are many times the speeds that you measure, and travel times are the same for one of those "theoretical" miles. So when you lie down near the North Pole you're actually a great deal shorter than you are when you lie down near the South Pole. This is why the Earth appears to be a sphere when you measure it... :lol:

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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2016, 00:21 
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For the majority it (sadly) comes down to a question of trust.

Repeat a lie often enough - and it becomes 'truth'.

I base my belief on my observation and senses.

It certainly does not feel like I'm on a spinning ball,travelling at ridiculous speeds.

When I look out on a river,a lake or on the sea it always appears flat as far as I can see,as does the horizon.

And then laser experiments across water by people independent of NASA have confirmed that we live on a flat,stationary plain.

200 proofs of this....


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h5i_iDyUTCg


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2016, 01:22 
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Oh come on. Pot. Kettle. Black. You're basing all your arguments on one thing, which is easily explained. Meanwhile all the evidence to the contrary is dismissed with conspiracy theories or ignored.

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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2016, 02:41 
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Conspiracy theorist......nothing more than a derogatory term used to dismiss a critical thinker.

Conspiracy theorist.....someone who questions the statements of known liars.


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2016, 02:54 
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This is all very mentally stimulating, actually enjoyable to read the comments this morning even if I don't believe in many of these flat earth theories/evidence. It is an eye-opener for sure and really enforces the "question everything" saying.

My observation from everyone's posts is there seems to be some people who are really bothered by other people's beliefs. While some are just open to it. Like Mulder says "I want to believe" 8) I don't think anyone is pushing anyone's beliefs on this thread...it is the offtopic section afterall.

Someone posted earlier "the truth is what you believe to be true" or something like that and I think that's true from the individual's standpoint. I personally have no problems with it. In somewhat of an analogy, there are devout religious people that have never personally experienced any divine interactions, but is convinced there is an afterlife for them as that is the absolute truth for them. Are they wrong? Don't answer as it's a rhetorical question.

I think the Matrix movies unknowingly expanded a large portion of people's belief boundaries of what could be real, even if many stayed grounded in what is true. All these theoretical perceptions and meta-universes...etc. Fascinating stuff and at the same time easily dismissed. Please share the psychedelics ;) :D


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