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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2020, 06:50 
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Joo Too
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I've created this topic because I had a blog called "Leaving the Dark Side for a Shade of Gray". This blog described the transition of different people from being a LP defender to being a SP one. Because we all ended up going back to LP defense, the blog will go by a different name from now on handling different kind of experiences.

However, this does not mean the experience of this transition isn't worthwhile and no one can succeed in this attempt. Therefore this topic wants to tackle the different experiences, techniques and strategies accompagnying the transition and to show it isn't near impossible as it appears to be.

So everything about the topic is welcome, ranging from personal experiences to links to other websites, blogs,...

I'll start with the obvious: a link to my own blog.

https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=36169

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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 02:13 
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So... if you're using SP for defense, do you use OX or sponge? If sponge, how much sponge?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 01 Apr 2020, 04:38 
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iskandar taib wrote:
So... if you're using SP for defense, do you use OX or sponge? If sponge, how much sponge?

Iskandar


I've used 1,5mm sponge black SPs in my experiment.

The main problem with SP chopping is that the sponges underneath current SPs don't absorb enough power. So footwork is even more crucial than using LPs for defense: a chop in less than ideal position results at best in a ball easily able to be put away. Therefore your footwork has to be near perfect.

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2020, 09:28 
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struggling alot with chopping back slow really spiny loops. What would be the right approach?
Too much forward momentum it goes long not enough it goes high. Will increasing the chopping speed overcome this?


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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 00:31 
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@Lorre, I see you using a very fast blade and 1.5mm sponge with P1R, that is a quite fast combination for choping backhand but loose a lot of the LP effects due to thick sponge. Is this the reason that you tried SP ? The need for more speed? Maybe a Grass Dtecs with 0.5mm sponge that is a lot faster than P1R be a better alternative for you? Two years ago when started TT I chose the Spinpips Chop 2 that is a defensive SP but I have never managed to control that monster so I ended up with LPs.

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current setup: blade: Yinhe 980 | FH: Palio AK47 Blue 2.1mm | BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1mm
looping setup: blade: Yinhe W-6 | FH: Palio AK47Red 2.1mm | BH: Palio AK47Blue 2.1mm

@work setup: blade: Yinhe 980 | FH: Yinhe Mercury2 2.1mm | BH: Yinhe Neptune 0.7mm
to-be-used setup: blade: DONIC DefPlay Senso 3 | FH: YASAKA Rakza 7 soft 1.8mm | BH: TSP SpinPips Chop 2 1.4mm


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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 06:04 
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situsit wrote:
struggling alot with chopping back slow really spiny loops. What would be the right approach?
Too much forward momentum it goes long not enough it goes high. Will increasing the chopping speed overcome this?


Yes, that should overcome it. Don't forget to start high and end under the ball.

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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 06:08 
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tzifos wrote:
@Lorre, I see you using a very fast blade and 1.5mm sponge with P1R, that is a quite fast combination for choping backhand but loose a lot of the LP effects due to thick sponge. Is this the reason that you tried SP ? The need for more speed? Maybe a Grass Dtecs with 0.5mm sponge that is a lot faster than P1R be a better alternative for you? Two years ago when started TT I chose the Spinpips Chop 2 that is a defensive SP but I have never managed to control that monster so I ended up with LPs.


No, it wasn't the speed that attracted me to the SP side, but the ability to change the spin. P1-R with a thick sponge on my blade sits on the fine line when it comes to generating enough spin by the player itself.

It isn't fast if you ask me. The sponge of P1-R is dampening.

I think I have a 1,0mm or 1,5mm SSPC II lying in my closet. I might experiment with that one.

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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 07:47 
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Have you given DO Knuckle a try? It obviously works for Sato & CO in the JNT. Even the CNT doesn't just blast through her.

Personally it doesn't fit my receive game right now but if I manage to put myself into a chopping situation it works extremely well against players several levels better than me. My long term plan is to transition to this rubber in 1.0mm as soon as I find a blade that works ok with my FH (light but very stiff but still ok for looping).


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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 11:53 
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I've swapped back and forth, but stick with OX LP for the most part. In games, I don't find the opponents miss much more (if at all) when I use short pips vs OX LP, and I make a lot more errors. Sure, comes down to skill with short pips and disguise etc. But even watching other amateur short pip choppers, they still have very long rallies. It's not like they're doing some magic 'poof' disguise and getting points left and right. Pro level appears to be the same. Short or long pip, still just a war of attrition.

That being the case, I think for me putting away the SP is the best choice. Whichever you can land more balls on the table with, using good controlled placement wherever you like, is the most effective imo. From what I've seen, SP choppers start out as inverted choppers and then go to SP. Meaning they've never learned the abnormal method of returning with LPs and probably don't want to relearn their strokes. Whereas LP users often start with them early on. Not always the case though

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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2020, 18:15 
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mart1nandersson wrote:
Have you given DO Knuckle a try? It obviously works for Sato & CO in the JNT. Even the CNT doesn't just blast through her.


No, Apparently I haven't. I'll give that a try too.

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PostPosted: 03 Oct 2020, 08:54 
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Lorre wrote:
mart1nandersson wrote:
Have you given DO Knuckle a try? It obviously works for Sato & CO in the JNT. Even the CNT doesn't just blast through her.


No, Apparently I haven't. I'll give that a try too.


It'll be fun to hear the feedback from someone better than myself trying out the rubber! My personal view is that you can impart quite a bit of spin with it even though it isn't as tricky to control as for example Spectol


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PostPosted: 04 Oct 2020, 05:46 
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mart1nandersson wrote:
It'll be fun to hear the feedback from someone better than myself trying out the rubber! My personal view is that you can impart quite a bit of spin with it even though it isn't as tricky to control as for example Spectol


If I'd try the rubber, I'll be writing my review in my blog.

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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 15:02 
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Earlier you mentioned that the short pips you tried (802 and spectol) didn't have enough dampening effect to deal with really powerful shots. Would using a slower, more flexible blade solve this issue?

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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 15:46 
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What solves it is... being able to move back very fast!

The benefit of long pips, low friction and thin or no sponge, is that you can chop the ball at any distance from the table and against any incoming spin. With short/inverted rubbers, you will find it very difficult to chop a high spin ball on the rise. Unless you block those balls, your alternative is to dash backward and let the ball drop. That's why SP chopping is so much more demanding on footwork. You don't have the safety/forgiveness of long pips.

So, would using a slow and flexible blade help? Not that much! You can reduce the speed some, but the inherent problem remains.

More importantly - ask yourself what your level is and what level your opponents are at. 2000 and under can easily use short pips. I've seen a number of 2100-2200 players using SP backhand for chopping.

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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2020, 23:26 
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Hopsquatch wrote:
Earlier you mentioned that the short pips you tried (802 and spectol) didn't have enough dampening effect to deal with really powerful shots. Would using a slower, more flexible blade solve this issue?


That might certainly help, but I suspect a slow dampening sponge will still be necessary. I don't want to trade my Joo in, though.

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