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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2021, 23:33 
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I am playing in modern defense, but i have big troubles with forehand chop, backhand chop with lp is much easier and consistent, so, does forehand chop is really important on high lever playing, or i can just attack and fishing with forehand against high level player?


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2021, 23:48 
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16lines wrote:
I am playing in modern defense, but i have big troubles with forehand chop, backhand chop with lp is much easier and consistent, so, does forehand chop is really important on high lever playing, or i can just attack and fishing with forehand against high level player?


Yes. Watch Chen Weixing, Gionis Panagiotis and Jian Li for inspiration! Stay strong brother.

Also can watch some of Israel Awolaja from UK. I'm sure there are others but I just can't think off top of my head.

As far as I'm aware all of the above do not Fh chop. There is also Gustaf Ericson who I believe sometimes FH chops with a twiddle using the OX LPs though

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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2021, 02:29 
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I certainly don't think it is required for a high level modern-defense. As you've stated there are quite a few players who counter/fish/lob with the fh. My personal faves Joo, Matsushita, and Shiono all used the shot so I started learning it over the past year. I can say the road has been very difficult but the work has already been paying off. Attackers seem to have a much harder time reading the spin vs the lp. 2000+ players seem to get into a groove when facing lps, especially ox imo. I still counter and fish, but when the opportunity arises I love using fh chop.

Overall I don't think it's necessary, but damn it sure is fun :D

If you care at all about aesthetics, I find the shot almost magical (it's like a dying art). It's the kind of shot watching a high level chopper you can hear gasps in the crowd. Style points count :rock:


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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2021, 05:39 
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16lines wrote:
I am playing in modern defense, but i have big troubles with forehand chop, backhand chop with lp is much easier and consistent, so, does forehand chop is really important on high lever playing, or i can just attack and fishing with forehand against high level player?

I don't think it's a must to chop from the FH side. Gionis and Ruwen don't, for example :)

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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2021, 08:48 
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Necessary!?

Hell no!

In fact, below, say... 2000-2100 USATT it's basically a handicap!

You're much better of being able to put away points with a FH kill, rather than trying to chop. They'll see your weakness and know a paddy-cake return is enough to stay in the game. Also, people below that level just don't loop consistently enough, so you'll be in a lot of push-push rallies and maybe facing some loops now and again.

If your goal is just to develop the chop, sure... if your goal is to win?! Develop your attack first! Or, be content to win push-push games with very little chopping until you happen to scale up a lot or face higher rated players.

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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2021, 09:44 
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I agree and disagree,
I think calling it a handicap goes a little far, even at a lower level. The fh chop is merely a tool that can add a new dimension to your game. I totally agree you should develop an attack first. I hate push-push games and at the low level that's often what it becomes. You need to punish weak/passive balls. The FH chop often doesn't belong at the lower level, it could be detrimental to force it.

Winning isn't everything though. If that was the case we shouldn't use long-pips at all, clearly at the higher level their usage becomes less. LPs will become a hindrance at some point. I've been told this by many grumpy inverted players, trying to convince me to take off the pips, the reality is I crush them and they hate it :lol:

For me, defense is consistently returning the ball, mixing in variation, and attacking when the opportunity arises. The variability on the FH chop is super deadly, if a 2000+ player has trouble reading it, a 1500 has no chance.

"Necessary?" I'd still say no, at least not until your foundation strokes are solid. The question is DO YOU want this shot in your arsenal one day, if so why wait until you are 2100 to start training it?
Also worth noting , Angela Guan, 2400+ national player learned to chop before looping, honestly her loop still leaves a lot of room for improvement.


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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2021, 12:00 
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JuicyHook wrote:
I agree and disagree,
I think calling it a handicap goes a little far, even at a lower level. The fh chop is merely a tool that can add a new dimension to your game. I totally agree you should develop an attack first. I hate push-push games and at the low level that's often what it becomes. You need to punish weak/passive balls. The FH chop often doesn't belong at the lower level, it could be detrimental to force it.

Winning isn't everything though. If that was the case we shouldn't use long-pips at all, clearly at the higher level their usage becomes less. LPs will become a hindrance at some point. I've been told this by many grumpy inverted players, trying to convince me to take off the pips, the reality is I crush them and they hate it :lol:

For me, defense is consistently returning the ball, mixing in variation, and attacking when the opportunity arises. The variability on the FH chop is super deadly, if a 2000+ player has trouble reading it, a 1500 has no chance.

"Necessary?" I'd still say no, at least not until your foundation strokes are solid. The question is DO YOU want this shot in your arsenal one day, if so why wait until you are 2100 to start training it?
Also worth noting , Angela Guan, 2400+ national player learned to chop before looping, honestly her loop still leaves a lot of room for improvement.


Yes, her attack is fairly minimal in comparison to other players. She may be rather hard capped with her level rating as a result.

Look at Gionis as a youth -- he played fh chops on most returns! Yes, it's true! Now you won't see him FH chop against a single ball! Well... just about :lol: For him, he made the swap to full time FH top spin.

There are always exceptions to the rule - thomas bennborn for example. E. Chtet, although recently he attacks much more that I've seen.

It's certainly not impossible to do, and a number of players successfully use that style to 2200-2400ish ratings. The real question is, for me... can YOU MENTALLY handle the kind of game it requires!? Long push rallies, sacrificing some putaway proficiency to work on your chops. I tried it for around 2 years, and of late have just decided to go the gionis route and play FH top spins. Both are fun! If I go against a loop-happy punk, I'll gladly try my hand at classic defense.

In truth, the FH BLASTER can actually help your chopping. It scares your opponent from playing too weakly, and as a result they may be more prone to keep attacking - so you get to chop! However, if you don't possess that weapon/threat... then they have no need to keep hammering.

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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2021, 02:11 
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The question is somewhat double edged.

How?
In forehand chop you have less body support for your stroke. This makes consistency more challenging, but allows for applying greater power to your stroke. The chop is typically used from a distance, where consistency/precision is more important than speed/spin. This means that you need way more practice to develop a useful forehand chop. It will be your weakness for an extended period of time, but if you have the patience, the weakness will be turned to a strength when you can send any attack floating back over the net.

The training is also twofold. in addition to polishig your technique, you need better skills in reading your opponent and inviting particular responses. You will be covering more distance than your opponent, so you don't want to be behind, but rather ahead of the game. If you can start your move before you see the opponent's stroke, that helps a lot.

Why?
Because attacking against a chop requires a lot greater effort and leaves less options than attacking against a lob. You force the opponent to work harder. While you still need to know how to lob when you are playing from a distance, you will have trouble advancing beyond a certain level if you can't also chop from both wings.

Also, as JuicyHook commented, style points count. Directly, by boosting your confidence, and indirectly by winning the audience support. It counts by adding the pleasure you get from playing the game. It may also count for your playing spirits, making you win a game you might otherwise have lost.


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