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PostPosted: 24 Jul 2019, 20:40 
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Some seriously impressive serves (click to play)

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PostPosted: 24 Jul 2019, 21:33 
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Meh. More like seriously illegal.


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PostPosted: 24 Jul 2019, 22:27 
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GMan4911 wrote:
Meh. More like seriously illegal.


It seems likely the serves are to a fairly serious degree hidden for players of this class to so massively 'misread' them...

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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2019, 00:30 
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I think his control of the length of serve is a big factor and placement. If a serve is long, it's easier to hit through spin if you are not sure what's on it, or loop it back - loop backspin it goes over the net, loop topspin and it still goes over the net, just a lot higher.

Lot's of these returns were to half length or short serves and the player is reaching for the ball or playing it over the table. Much harder to overpower spin that way if you can't read it. Throw in exceptional disguise and you have excellent weapons.

Control of length, placement, disguise. Lot's of practice. All credit to him.


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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2019, 01:01 
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He won a lot of matches in that tournament and also beat or almost beat some chinese player, much because of his serve. Then, next tournament most players had studied his serves and was able to return them. Mahuru Yoshimura or something like that is his name. His brother K.... something is a little better now I believe.

It was the same when Tristan Flore went far in one tournament and almost beat Ma Long (great match btw), ha won a lot on his serve but next tournament he had to struggle a lot more.

Few players are able to dominate with serve for a long time like Waldner did.

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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2019, 15:33 
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Def-attack wrote:
He won a lot of matches in that tournament and also beat or almost beat some chinese player, much because of his serve. Then, next tournament most players had studied his serves and was able to return them. Mahuru Yoshimura or something like that is his name. His brother K.... something is a little better now I believe.

It was the same when Tristan Flore went far in one tournament and almost beat Ma Long (great match btw), ha won a lot on his serve but next tournament he had to struggle a lot more.

Few players are able to dominate with serve for a long time like Waldner did.


Yoshimura Maharu/ Mahale and I think Kazuhiro Yoshimura .....

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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2019, 19:48 
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+1 to what Debater said.

I cannot see one serve from that video where anything looks illegal. Toss from open palm, stationary before toss, mostly vertical, high enough, behind table edge (sometimes just barely) and ball visible to the receiver.

The only relevant argument posted to support the "illegal" theory is that the serves must be illegal because "players at this level cannot misread this bad". Relevant, but not true...
If the posters who called Yoshimura a cheater do not have better evidence, perhaps you owe the man an apology :P

I don't believe that the serves have more spin than those from other players at high level. The important factor is the difference between actual spin and what spin the receiver believes that there is. See the slow motion close-up bit in the middle of the video. Arm and body movement consistent with a heavy underspin serve, while racket movement most likely imposes good sidespin and some topspin.


Last edited by keme on 29 Jul 2019, 22:13, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2019, 19:59 
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keme wrote:
I cannot see one serve from that video where the anything looks illegal. Toss from open palm, stationary before toss, mostly vertical, high enough, behind table edge (sometimes just barely) and ball visible to the receiver.

You must've missed the part where the ball goes behind his head which makes it clearly not visible to the receiver. Here it is in slow-mo https://youtu.be/JxhC-d8to6Q?t=130


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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2019, 20:06 
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GMan4911 wrote:
keme wrote:
I cannot see one serve from that video where the anything looks illegal. Toss from open palm, stationary before toss, mostly vertical, high enough, behind table edge (sometimes just barely) and ball visible to the receiver.

You must've missed the part where the ball goes behind his head which makes it clearly not visible to the receiver. Here it is in slow-mo https://youtu.be/JxhC-d8to6Q?t=130

Yes, I missed that. Evidence provided. I stand corrected. Thank you!


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PostPosted: 30 Jul 2019, 04:14 
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keme wrote:
GMan4911 wrote:
keme wrote:
I cannot see one serve from that video where the anything looks illegal. Toss from open palm, stationary before toss, mostly vertical, high enough, behind table edge (sometimes just barely) and ball visible to the receiver.

You must've missed the part where the ball goes behind his head which makes it clearly not visible to the receiver. Here it is in slow-mo https://youtu.be/JxhC-d8to6Q?t=130

Yes, I missed that. Evidence provided. I stand corrected. Thank you!


I watched the video, clearly Yoshimura is hiding the ball contact by playing it just after the ball passes behind his head in the head/body shadow ... That service is called YG up-down serve in Japan I think ... saw some WRM videos ... :-D

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