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PostPosted: 07 Jun 2021, 17:27 
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Hey guys, I cannot quite get a detailed answer through my searches online. So I'm hoping i can get it by asking here.

ABS 2 EVO. What happens to this clearly treated frictionless anti spin over time. Does it gain grip? Sponge become faster? Less reversal? Change of arc?

I ask for 2 reasons. I accidentally washed it a bit with water and swiped it with a card like I do all my rubbers due to a sweat stain that didn't go away. I noticed a brown substance came off so I'm thinking once this layer of treatment starts to deteriorate the characteristics will too.

But the most important one is I really don't want to invest my time into it if I have to keep buying it 2 or 3 times every year when i can just use Dtecs instead and i would very much like to just stick to 1 from as early as possible.

Thanks in advance

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 17:22 
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Can't say I have any experience on this matter but from reading posts under the "Anti" topic I get the impression that these frictionless antis do wear out rather quickly. And when they wear out, they GAIN friction (wouldn't make sense otherwise). As far as what causes them to gain friction, the loss of an applied anti-friction layer is as plausible as any other explanation, given we don't have any insider information from the manufacturer. I suppose it should be easy enough to destructively test a sheet by trying to remove this supposed anti-friction layer, but given what this stuff costs... I doubt anyone would sacrifice a sheet "in the interests of science"... :lol: I suppose, on the other hand, testing a cut-off piece would be doable...

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 17:41 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Can't say I have any experience on this matter but from reading posts under the "Anti" topic I get the impression that these frictionless antis do wear out rather quickly. And when they wear out, they GAIN friction (wouldn't make sense otherwise). As far as what causes them to gain friction, the loss of an applied anti-friction layer is as plausible as any other explanation, given we don't have any insider information from the manufacturer. I suppose it should be easy enough to destructively test a sheet by trying to remove this supposed anti-friction layer, but given what this stuff costs... I doubt anyone would sacrifice a sheet "in the interests of science"... :lol: I suppose, on the other hand, testing a cut-off piece would be doable...

Iskandar


I probably should have researched before buying and wanting to play with the anti because i probably wouldn't have even bothered to buy it tbh. It was the last day of the sale on tt11 so I panic bought haha.

I did see 1 post about the frictionless antis but then someone mentioned the ABS 2 EVO is more durable which gives me hope. But I've seen it too late lol

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 22:14 
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I have the cleaner from DerMaterialspezialist and that seems to help it stay pretty slick. I've had the same sheet of Storkraft on my blade for probably 4 months now, playing multiple times per week, and it's still very slick.

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 22:23 
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dwruck wrote:
I have the cleaner from DerMaterialspezialist and that seems to help it stay pretty slick. I've had the same sheet of Storkraft on my blade for probably 4 months now, playing multiple times per week, and it's still very slick.


It seems I have to invest in this cleaner then. Gonna cost another 15 ish pounds to get that delivered...lovely. either this or just play Dtecs and be done with it all

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 22:33 
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My experience with older ABS2 sheets is that you should not use cleaner from Der Materialspezialist on that rubber. For me the surface gained grip. Use a clean micro fiber cloth to clean it.

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 23:28 
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Def-attack wrote:
My experience with older ABS2 sheets is that you should not use cleaner from Der Materialspezialist on that rubber. For me the surface gained grip. Use a clean micro fiber cloth to clean it.


Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking tbh that perhaps it's like this to make more money (the need to replace often). Because the ABS 2 EVO is actually REALLY nice and effective to play with. So this would be its downside.

I am very hesitant to buy that cleaner now hmm

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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 00:55 
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iskandar taib wrote:
these frictionless antis do wear out rather quickly. And when they wear out, they GAIN friction (wouldn't make sense otherwise).

Since we are talking about Dr. N antis here, this is not the case. They use a very thick, hard dampening sponge which will eventually become softer and faster and loses some control. This tends to happen (at least to me) well before I see any significant loss in spin reversal. You can clean the surface with a dry microfiber cloth.

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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 00:57 
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EVA THE MOST PECULIAR PLAYING MATERIAL OF ANYTHING ELSE.

EVA (foamiran) is a great novelty material for absorbing mechanical vebrations on impact.

EVA is the very material that Neubauer's ABS rubbers have got as shock dampening layer underneaf.
Formally speaking, EVA is not a legal product for table tennis coverings, it is scarcely stretchable and has not sufficient elasticity.

However, you can easily obtain sheets of EVA in many colours and many sizes at cheap cost.. My casual playmate used to couple lp and eva sheets thus getting a non-bounce combination to get people going mad.


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 07:22 
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Dear Friends.

HEREBY, you all kindly invited to answer the questions attached below.

QUESTIONNAIRE.
on Dr. Neubauer ABS-2 ANTI rubbers (soft and hard sponge).

1) Is the sponge a porous material?
2) Is the sponge fragile upon stretching ?
3) Could you see "pockmarks" on rubber surface upon impact. If so, how soon did they go away? Are there some permanent pockmarks to stay for long, (for several minutes and longer?) , how big size? how many ones?

Thanks.

PS// some enlarged pictures of the pockmarks would be most welcomed.


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2021, 16:59 
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igorponger wrote:
Dear Friends.

HEREBY, you all kindly invited to answer the questions attached below.

QUESTIONNAIRE.
on Dr. Neubauer ABS-2 ANTI rubbers (soft and hard sponge).

1) Is the sponge a porous material?
2) Is the sponge fragile upon stretching ?
3) Could you see "pockmarks" on rubber surface upon impact. If so, how soon did they go away? Are there some permanent pockmarks to stay for long, (for several minutes and longer?) , how big size? how many ones?

Thanks.

PS// some enlarged pictures of the pockmarks would be most welcomed.


I'm definitely not the man for this as I usually pay almost 0 attention to these details lol

But the sponge doesn't look porous and isn't fragile. At first I couldn't see or feel pockmarks until just recently when there were 2x discoloured patches at the point I hit most with, that's when I actually checked properly and found they stay for around about 30s compared to only maybe 0.5 in other places.

No point me taking a pic on the Samsung Galaxy S8

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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2021, 11:09 
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Hi Igor,

Nice to meet you! I've just recently joined this forum so go easy on me :)

I have about 2 years experience playing on/off with ABS2 & ABS2 Soft which likely uses the same dampening sponge as ABS2 EVO. If it is lightish pink in colour than it would be the same.

From reading through the blurbs on https://www.drneubauer.com/ the only difference should be the topsheet formulation, ABS2 EVO being the hardest. From softest to hardest topsheet: ABS2 SOFT > ABS2 > ABS2 EVO.

Interestingly, ABS2 EVO has an option for a 1.8 which the others don't, though not as suitable for me as I use Fanti on OFF/OFF- blades. I go more for the slowest most dampening effect which the thickest versions offer - Red 2.5, only ever used on softer outer ply blades.

1) Is the sponge a porous material?

Yes, very fine but not too noticeable to my eye. The 2.5mm sponges I use are thick though super lightweight at the same time, significantly lighter compared to 52 deg sponges I use on inverted side. I would think there needs to be an element of porousness to keep the weight so low. Have you ever used those rubber cleaning sponges? Maybe halfway though leaning more toward the softer cleaning side though I could be wrong.

I've seen Carsten Neubauer at times answering questions on this forum so maybe he can jump in :)

2) Is the sponge fragile upon stretching ?

If you mean stretching it by trying to take off your blade, yes it most certainly is. I ruined my first sheet of ABS2 2.5 removing it from my blade no matter how carefully I tried. It was a combination of the very adhesive gluesheet that comes with it and the sponge tearing easily from blade when using force. The topsheet also wrinkled/creased up badly by the end after I knew I couldn't save it. Once you put it on you should not try to remove, unless you allocate an hour or so and have a hairdryer and solid credit card type device to help in slowly lifting it off.

Btw I've never tried stretching it new out of the package though I guess with topsheet & sponge it would have some stretchability like other rubbers. The glue job by Dr Neubauer is really well done, I've never had any topsheet separate or look like separating from the dampening sponge.

3) Could you see "pockmarks" on rubber surface upon impact. If so, how soon did they go away? Are there some permanent pockmarks to stay for long, (for several minutes and longer?) , how big size? how many ones?

For ABS2 & ABS2 Soft, even from the first session it will slowly and permanently degrade, with the outline of pimple geometry becoming more prominent the longer you use it. This happens at a faster rate compared to what occurs with normal inverted.
I don't really attack hard with it, though after 6 months of use, my current topsheet in the middle where I hit the ball mostly, it kind of looks like someone has spilt a clear sugary drink on it and then tried to wipe it off lightly but has dried. This also happens to longer use tacky rubber which my dad uses in red though instead going in the lighter tint direction in comparison. I change my grip when serving pendulum and this area looks pretty good where the sweat seems to keep it looking more like when new. So if taken care of properly, it can be possible to have it looking like new.

In black this would not be an issue, either way it has no impact on performance, it has the same overall slippery-ness across the whole surface even after 6 months use.

Hope this helps

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Last edited by ZiFnT on 30 Jun 2021, 16:24, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2021, 14:51 
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igorponger wrote:
Dear Friends.

HEREBY, you all kindly invited to answer the questions attached below.

QUESTIONNAIRE.
on Dr. Neubauer ABS-2 ANTI rubbers (soft and hard sponge).

1) Is the sponge a porous material?
2) Is the sponge fragile upon stretching ?
3) Could you see "pockmarks" on rubber surface upon impact. If so, how soon did they go away? Are there some permanent pockmarks to stay for long, (for several minutes and longer?) , how big size? how many ones?

Thanks.

PS// some enlarged pictures of the pockmarks would be most welcomed.


Perhaps you can clarified why you want this information, Igor?

Based on many of your previous posts, you are mainly interested in finding something wrong or illegal about a table tennis rubber, so that you can report it to the ITTF in an attempt to get it banned.
This can cause major headaches to the manufacturers, and also to the many players who have invested time and money in these rubbers and this new style of play.

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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2021, 05:08 
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ZiFnT wrote:
Hi Igor,

Nice to meet you! I've just recently joined this forum so go easy on me :)

I have about 2 years experience playing on/off with ABS2 & ABS2 Soft which likely uses the same dampening sponge as ABS2 EVO. If it is lightish pink in colour than it would be the same.

From reading through the blurbs on https://www.drneubauer.com/ the only difference should be the topsheet formulation, ABS2 EVO being the hardest. From softest to hardest topsheet: ABS2 SOFT > ABS2 > ABS2 EVO.

Interestingly, ABS2 EVO has an option for a 1.8 which the others don't, though not as suitable for me as I use Fanti on OFF/OFF- blades. I go more for the slowest most dampening effect which the thickest versions offer - Red 2.5, only ever used on softer outer ply blades.

1) Is the sponge a porous material?

Yes, very fine but not too noticeable to my eye. The 2.5mm sponges I use are thick though super lightweight at the same time, significantly lighter compared to 52 deg sponges I use on inverted side. I would think there needs to be an element of porousness to keep the weight so low. Have you ever used those rubber cleaning sponges? Maybe halfway though leaning more toward the softer cleaning side though I could be wrong.

I've seen Carsten Neubauer at times answering questions on this forum so maybe he can jump in :)

2) Is the sponge fragile upon stretching ?

If you mean stretching it by trying to take off your blade, yes it most certainly is. I ruined my first sheet of ABS2 2.5 removing it from my blade no matter how carefully I tried. It was a combination of the very adhesive gluesheet that comes with it and the sponge tearing easily from blade when using force. The topsheet also wrinkled/creased up badly by the end after I knew I couldn't save it. Once you put it on you should not try to remove, unless you allocate an hour or so and have a hairdryer and solid credit card type device to help in slowly lifting it off.

Btw I've never tried stretching it new out of the package though I guess with topsheet & sponge it would have some stretchability like other rubbers. The glue job by Dr Neubauer is really well done, I've never had any topsheet separate or look like separating from the dampening sponge.

3) Could you see "pockmarks" on rubber surface upon impact. If so, how soon did they go away? Are there some permanent pockmarks to stay for long, (for several minutes and longer?) , how big size? how many ones?

For ABS2 & ABS2 Soft, even from the first session it will slowly and permanently degrade, with the outline of pimple geometry becoming more prominent the longer you use it. This happens at a faster rate compared to what occurs with normal inverted.
I don't really attack hard with it, though after 6 months of use, my current topsheet in the middle where I hit the ball mostly, it kind of looks like someone has spilt a clear sugary drink on it and then tried to wipe it off lightly but has dried. This also happens to longer use tacky rubber which my dad uses in red though instead going in the lighter tint direction in comparison. I change my grip when serving pendulum and this area looks pretty good where the sweat seems to keep it looking more like when new. So if taken care of properly, it can be possible to have it looking like new.

In black this would not be an issue, either way it has no impact on performance, it has the same overall slippery-ness across the whole surface even after 6 months use.

Hope this helps


EVO does indeed have pink sponge.

Just to clarify what I mean when I answer the pockmarks question, when you press the rubber it becomes indented and slowly goes back to normal. It was happening on the 2 places where there was very distinct coca cola like stains (not from the drink). When I tested it by pressing it in (not even that hard) it took around 10seconds to fill out again. I also started to find the ball going long and high randomly even though my block was good. I did hit a lot with it though tbf (the attacking backspin like in my video kind of hit).

It's a fantastic product in terms of performance. The drawback is its durability I guess

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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2021, 03:48 
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For forum newcomers - beware the Igor. As Haggis says, he likes the stir the pot to provoke reactions. Look at his earlier posts, or even that post about "EVA" on this thread. Us folk who've been here for a while usually just ignore him.

Iskandar


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