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 Post subject: Tampering with rubber
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2023, 21:57 
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Hi guys,

I have been thinking about this for a long time. I am an antiplayer (FL-anti: dr.neubauer). I play in Belgium
just beneath the national level. I'm doing pretty wel, And hope I can make the jump to national level soon.

Everyone I meet who is playing with long pips or anti at this level is tampering with the equipment one way or
another. They put stuff on the blades, add silicone to the antip, spray things on the pimples. Most of the time they
do a lot of stuff at once.

It seems like you can't reach the national level by just play these kind of rubbers.
How is this in your country? Do you feel the same?
It is tempting me to experiment with it, but at the same time I think its cheating :)
Bit of an internal conflict here

Cheers
Pieter


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2023, 00:15 
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I think in any country, getting to a high national level with long pips or anti is pretty rare. Yes, there are examples of it, but it's definitely more common to have double inverted. I believe that's become even more rare since the reduction of the pips aspect ratio and the implementation of the new ball.

I know a lot of long pips and anti players. None of them are "national level", but I've only ever known one that I knew for sure was "treating" his pips and using them in sanctioned tournaments.

I've always been curious about the differences, but honestly I personally would never do it outside of testing in my basement just for fun. Regardless of whether or not I think the rules are fair (and I think that there's been an intentional set of rules to eliminate defensive styles) I would rather take it as a challenge to rise as high as I can while following the rules rather than bending the rules myself.

If everyone did whatever they wanted regardless of the rules because in their opinion the rules are "unfair" or "everyone's doing it", it just cheapens the sport. Like my parents would say "if everyone jumped off the top of a building would you do that too?"

What might be interesting is, if you have regular high level practice partners at the national level, ask them to have a hit with you, telling them you are testing out an illegal rubber. It would be very interesting to see what effect there actually is. Probably less than you might expect.

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2023, 00:41 
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dwruck wrote:
I think in any country, getting to a high national level with long pips or anti is pretty rare. Yes, there are examples of it, but it's definitely more common to have double inverted. I believe that's become even more rare since the reduction of the pips aspect ratio and the implementation of the new ball.

I know a lot of long pips and anti players. None of them are "national level", but I've only ever known one that I knew for sure was "treating" his pips and using them in sanctioned tournaments.

I've always been curious about the differences, but honestly I personally would never do it outside of testing in my basement just for fun. Regardless of whether or not I think the rules are fair (and I think that there's been an intentional set of rules to eliminate defensive styles) I would rather take it as a challenge to rise as high as I can while following the rules rather than bending the rules myself.

If everyone did whatever they wanted regardless of the rules because in their opinion the rules are "unfair" or "everyone's doing it", it just cheapens the sport. Like my parents would say "if everyone jumped off the top of a building would you do that too?"

What might be interesting is, if you have regular high level practice partners at the national level, ask them to have a hit with you, telling them you are testing out an illegal rubber. It would be very interesting to see what effect there actually is. Probably less than you might expect.


Not true, high aspect ratio long pips, enlarged pips & smoothed are the way to compete vs high level players boosting inverted rubbers. Because treated pips it's easy to see people are going to Glanti-Flanti that's more difficult to see if are treated or not....

My personal point of view is if you are young and with good phisical strenght no better setup that two inverted.

If you don't boost you always be in disadvantage vs people that boost.

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2023, 01:02 
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dwruck wrote:
I think in any country, getting to a high national level with long pips or anti is pretty rare. Yes, there are examples of it, but it's definitely more common to have double inverted. I believe that's become even more rare since the reduction of the pips aspect ratio and the implementation of the new ball.

I know a lot of long pips and anti players. None of them are "national level", but I've only ever known one that I knew for sure was "treating" his pips and using them in sanctioned tournaments.

I've always been curious about the differences, but honestly I personally would never do it outside of testing in my basement just for fun. Regardless of whether or not I think the rules are fair (and I think that there's been an intentional set of rules to eliminate defensive styles) I would rather take it as a challenge to rise as high as I can while following the rules rather than bending the rules myself.

If everyone did whatever they wanted regardless of the rules because in their opinion the rules are "unfair" or "everyone's doing it", it just cheapens the sport. Like my parents would say "if everyone jumped off the top of a building would you do that too?"

What might be interesting is, if you have regular high level practice partners at the national level, ask them to have a hit with you, telling them you are testing out an illegal rubber. It would be very interesting to see what effect there actually is. Probably less than you might expect.



I've been testing out a treated anti and the difference is there.
It's not like 50 procent difference, but maybe the extra 4/5 procent you need to have the edge.

Cheers,
Pieter


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2023, 01:49 
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Supposedly the original frictionless long pips had epoxy daubed onto the end of the pips. If I were to try this for fun that's the first thing I would try.

I dunno.. even back when this stuff was legal there never were any frictionless players that ever made it into the top 100 (Neubauer himself only ever won Veterans events, Ǻkerstrom was, from earlier discussions, only ever ranked ~150-200). The big impact, I think, wasn't at the top tier of the sport, it was at the lower levels.. there were probably a LOT of people rated around 1800-2000 who were using this stuff, and even more people rated 1500 or lower who used it because it bamboozled players of similar level. And that's where the complaints and bad reactions to the style came from. International level players, and players rated over 2000 can find ways to play against it and didn't particularly care, in fact they dealed with it so effectively that none of these players could win against them. It's the lower rated players who would get frustrated and blame the other guy's equipment.

One thing though - it would probably be best to avoid using silicone oils (Rain-X, etc.) on rubbers. It's going to get on the ball and then transfer over to your opponent's rubber. They'd get REALLY annoyed when they get a slick spot right in the the middle of that very expensive sheet of Dignics 09C.. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2023, 14:08 
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merlin el mago wrote:
If you don't boost you always be in disadvantage vs people that boost.


I suppose he's got a point. Supposedly the entire Chinese National Team plays with boosted H3 - maybe that's why they're always at the top of the rankings... :lol: On the other hand, you wonder why everyone else doesn't do the same thing, if it's ALWAYS an advantage to boost... You do see a lot of Chinese players who are lower down in the rankings, too.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2023, 02:59 
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BАD HABIT IS CONTAGIOUS, YOU KNOW.

Our fellow umpire being now employed in Italy competitions. He has by himself conducted a lot of friction Testings with a FITET testing device. Yes, this is the way we found out that a good many of the Italian lower league players using treated pips in defiance to a fair play and human good morality. And what is more remarkable,

POSTING FAILED !!!! :devil: :devil: :devil:

Attachment:
Screenshot 2023-12-23 .png
Screenshot 2023-12-23 .png [ 22.58 KiB | Viewed 1165 times ]


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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2023, 14:21 
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Attachment:
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faCvthw_A0M.jpg [ 53.85 KiB | Viewed 1126 times ]

Approved by FITET since 2019
Pending for ITTF approval


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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2023, 19:21 
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Carels wrote:
Hi guys,

I have been thinking about this for a long time. I am an antiplayer (FL-anti: dr.neubauer). I play in Belgium
just beneath the national level. I'm doing pretty wel, And hope I can make the jump to national level soon.

Everyone I meet who is playing with long pips or anti at this level is tampering with the equipment one way or
another. They put stuff on the blades, add silicone to the antip, spray things on the pimples. Most of the time they
do a lot of stuff at once.

It seems like you can't reach the national level by just play these kind of rubbers.
How is this in your country? Do you feel the same?
It is tempting me to experiment with it, but at the same time I think its cheating :)
Bit of an internal conflict here

Cheers
Pieter


I think there are limitation on the style of play and to over come it, is you need to twiddle and have both sides as a FH and both sides as a BH.
Equipment tampering is very normal in a since that what you do it, can alter its original state- this includes legal ways like from how one glues the rubber to stretching it on (tension it up) and glue. Many pros like Dima has talked about doing it on a Butterfly video.
So, no matter legal or illegal, the equipment tampering is one thing, but you still need a complete style to compete better and with male play, LP, MP, Anti etc is more difficult against two wing attackers. Female play is a bit easier, but still need to have all 4 sides in your arsenal.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2024, 08:20 
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igorponger wrote:
Attachment:
faCvthw_A0M.jpg

Approved by FITET since 2019
Pending for ITTF approval


Where can i buy this?

Thank you.


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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2024, 14:31 
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Igor sells it, of course... :lol:

Iskandar


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