OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 29 Nov 2020, 08:20


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 01 May 2020, 17:26 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 11 Mar 2020, 21:05
Posts: 35
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Hi All,

Is there any difference between vertically and horizontally aligned short pips in terms of BH/FH use? Falck uses horizontal short pips for FH and Ito uses vertical pips for BH - just a coincidence or is there more to it?

I'm contemplating getting a sheet of Dr Neubauer Leopard and use it for my BH in a close-to-the-table aggressive attacking style. What would the effect be given Leopard is horizontal pips? Would that be an issue if I want to use it on my BH to drive, block, hit through spin, attack serves etc (no chopping though)?

Thanks a lot


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 02 May 2020, 01:42 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 00:48
Posts: 2296
Location: Redwood City, California
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 158 times
Blade: BBC
FH: SP
BH: LP
For me, at least, it makes a big difference.

As a shake-hand player, I play SP on forehand and struggle with vertically-oriented pips.. I just can't lift the ball over the net reliably when hitting topspin drives. For shake-hand players, i.e. racket handle roughly parallel with the ground, horizontal pip orientation will provide more spin and vertical pip orientation less spin. This is reverse for C-pen and J-pen players whose racket handles are roughly perpendicular to the ground.

With the increased ability to generate spin comes more sensitivity to incoming spin as well as more arc on topspin drives which means an easier to return ball for your opponent. In other words, for a shake-hander like me, using a vertically-oriented SP like Nittaku Beautry produces low, flat shots but with a small 'window' to hit through in order to land a successful shot. Such low, flat balls are more difficult for opponents but I find that more errors occur on my side, not theirs, so I stick with horizontal pips.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 May 2020, 20:47 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 10 Feb 2020, 14:25
Posts: 29
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 2 times
Blade: xiom hinoki s7
FH: dms firestorm
nathanso wrote:
For me, at least, it makes a big difference.

As a shake-hand player, I play SP on forehand and struggle with vertically-oriented pips.. I just can't lift the ball over the net reliably when hitting topspin drives. For shake-hand players, i.e. racket handle roughly parallel with the ground, horizontal pip orientation will provide more spin and vertical pip orientation less spin. This is reverse for C-pen and J-pen players whose racket handles are roughly perpendicular to the ground.

With the increased ability to generate spin comes more sensitivity to incoming spin as well as more arc on topspin drives which means an easier to return ball for your opponent. In other words, for a shake-hander like me, using a vertically-oriented SP like Nittaku Beautry produces low, flat shots but with a small 'window' to hit through in order to land a successful shot. Such low, flat balls are more difficult for opponents but I find that more errors occur on my side, not theirs, so I stick with horizontal pips.
Nathanso, among the sp you have played which do you think the best horizontal.sp?

Sent from my Redmi 6A using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 May 2020, 00:27 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 22 Feb 2017, 04:18
Posts: 555
Location: Wakefield UK
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 81 times
Blade: S&T Black & White
FH: Rasanter R42 2mm
BH: Spinlord Keiler 1.2mm
Don't fixate on pip alignment as other factors affect the spin/disruptive effect equation like pip shape, length and grip, sponge softness and thickness.

For instance Explosion which has hz pips has a very low launch angle,little grip and very difficult to top spin with whilst speedy soft xd with vertical pips is very spinny but also affected by spin.

Moristo SP has vertical pips whilst AX has hz pips, good review of both in the blog section on table tennis11 web site. Both are spinny short pips with AX even more like inverted.

However the basic rule as mentioned by Nathonso and in the TT11 blogs is that vertical pips are better at countering/hitting through spin and HZ pips at applying it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 May 2020, 05:57 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 20 Feb 2020, 12:11
Posts: 35
Location: Florida, USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Blade: Donic Defplay Senso
I should preface this that I've only used long pips, but supposedly its mostly placebo effect. Since pips should be circular and therefore symmetrical on all sides, it doesn't matter if they're horizontal or vertical: the same number of pips are interacting with the ball. Even if alignment did have an impact, like ChasFox mentioned, a lot of other factors are going to matter more than alignment.

Again, I have not used short pips, so there may be things going on that I have no idea about. I've used both vertical and horizontal long pips, and the grip of the pip & sponge hardness made up the majority of the difference in feel.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 May 2020, 06:12 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 9691
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1196 times
This reminds me of Sriver. Back in the 1970s and 80s you could get two varieties of Sriver - I think they were called Sriver-S and Sriver-L, though I might be remembering wrong. The difference between the two was pips orientation. S was supposed to have more speed and L had more spin. These days only, I believe, L is still available (will have to look it up - it was actually part of the "headstamp", as was "D13", which was Butterfly's code name for inverted rubber) - having a second option means having to keep more inventory, plus it probably wasn't selling. One wonders why they didn't just sell the rubber with two ID strips - in fact, back then it wasn't necessary to have the "headstamp" on your racket, there was no racket control, no LARC, etc. so there were certain people (local schoolkids) who would mount the rubber upside down to eliminate the ID strip, so "your opponent wouldn't know what rubber you were using" (or so it was explained to me). The main reason for the ID strip was snob appeal - if your rubber said "Sriver" that was a status symbol (at least, among schoolkids) because it was expensive. So if your shop only had Sriver L in stock and you wanted S, all you had to do was mount the rubber on sideways!

I think I came across some modern rubber (I think from Andro) that had two ID strips.. same idea as the above. Back in the 1980s there was even one brand of long pips that had "zigzag pips" the pips were actually two cylinders stuck together, the top one was offset from the bottom. This sheet actually had FOUR ID strips so you could mount it any of four ways! Igor keeps complaining about "non-standard" rubbers, saying they should be illegal, etc. but it used to be weirder than it ever was in the present - MUCH weirder.

So if you have "horizontal" pips and need "vertical" pips - heck, just mount the sheet sideways. If you're not going to use it in a tournament, who cares if there's no ID strip? :lol:

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], nighitimare, Red and 29 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group