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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2020, 03:32 
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JulianTT wrote:
4. Boosting
Players developed different rituals, like "priming" new rubbers with X layers of glue which was said to soften the sponge permanently, then re-apply a number of layers before each session. The speed-glue effect lasted a few days and it was strongest in the first few hours.


My recollection of the time (around 1998-2000) was that the effect ONLY lasted about 2 hours. After that you had to reglue. The rubber was constantly changing over time. And after you were done playing, you'd have to remove the rubber from the blade, because it would shrink (much like modern Tensoroids shrink as the factory boosting wears off) and people thought you'd hurt the rubber if you allowed it to remain stuck to the blade after it shrunk. I wasn't around when the Chinese were using "low VOC" speed glues (such as Haifu Whale), maybe these did last a few days.

JulianTT wrote:
T2 Diamond is another league that is very big in Asia and they have different rules from the ITTF - for example they allow other color rubbers than red and black. Romanian player Bernadette Socz used a pink rubber there recently :) Also recreational players and clubs are probably not affiliated to the ITTF. Even in competitions, the rackets are not normally inspected until a serious level.


Er, T2 (lately "Diamond") isn't for us.. it's just for a small number of pro players who are invited to participate. Not exactly sure what you're trying to get at here - do they allow boosting? :lol: By the way the more-than-2-color rule is coming - it was voted in, and was supposed to come into effect "after the Olympics" (which, if it had happened, would mean it's already in effect). Bernie Szocs's pink rubber made it's appearance just about when the announcement was made. As a matter of fact, if you look in the new Electronic LARC (eLARC :lol: ):

https://equipments.ittf.com/#/equipment ... _coverings

you'll see there's a column for "Color". All rubbers listed so far are listed as having "2 colors" (Red and Black, of course) but this tells me they're getting ready for more than two colors for rubber.

Don't know about speed glue use where you live, but when I visited a table tennis shop in Bandung, they were selling bottles (plastic PET bottles, like you'd find filled with mineral water) of someone's home-made speed glue. This was honest-to-goodness high VOC speed glue, not that namby-pamby low-VOC speed glue the Chinese were selling (e.g. Haifu Dolphin or Whale, which one could apparently still get on AliExpress a couple years ago). So apparently someone DOES still use the stuff, and it's probably not just the odd rec player.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2020, 18:31 
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Thanks for the overview. You are missing one variant, the Nittaku Hurricane 3 (without Pro).
The German Nittaku page says it is has a "Japanese Powersponge", Chinese topsheet (obviously), glued together in China.
https://nittaku.tt/collections/noppen-i ... urricane-3


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PostPosted: 16 Oct 2020, 22:43 
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iskandar taib wrote:
You'll also see that the Nittaku H3 Pro (24-037) has a different number than non-Pro Nittaku H3 (24-035)! (There's also Nittaku H2 (24-036) and H2 Pro (24-038) as well, with separate numbers - has anyone ever SEEN them?) Theoretically this means they COULD be totally different topsheets, since they were submitted for registration separately from regular H3, and the Pro topsheet COULD be totally different than the non-Pro. Who knows... until someone dissects, photographs and tests them we'll NEVER know.


From the product description: "The Nittaku Hurricane Pro 3 Turbo Orange uses the topsheet from the iconic DHS Hurricane 3 combined with a new type of Japanese sponge." So the topsheet is the same which also makes the most sense commercially. I believe that the different entries in LARC are simply because of the different product names written on the rubber. Just like there are separate entries for Stiga Mantra S, M and H in spite of them sharing the same topsheet.


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PostPosted: 18 Oct 2020, 10:28 
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Thanks JulianTT!

This is an awesome thread, and should answer most of the questions people ever have, plus much more. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I've sticked the thread, so it will stay near the top.

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PostPosted: 20 Oct 2020, 02:28 
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JulianTT wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
You'll also see that the Nittaku H3 Pro (24-037) has a different number than non-Pro Nittaku H3 (24-035)! (There's also Nittaku H2 (24-036) and H2 Pro (24-038) as well, with separate numbers - has anyone ever SEEN them?) Theoretically this means they COULD be totally different topsheets, since they were submitted for registration separately from regular H3, and the Pro topsheet COULD be totally different than the non-Pro. Who knows... until someone dissects, photographs and tests them we'll NEVER know.


From the product description: "The Nittaku Hurricane Pro 3 Turbo Orange uses the topsheet from the iconic DHS Hurricane 3 combined with a new type of Japanese sponge." So the topsheet is the same which also makes the most sense commercially. I believe that the different entries in LARC are simply because of the different product names written on the rubber. Just like there are separate entries for Stiga Mantra S, M and H in spite of them sharing the same topsheet.


Yes, in all likelihood the topsheets are physically the same. But they don't legally have to be. I suppose you could also make the same case for Tenergy 05 and Tenergy 05 Hard to have the same topsheet, but it would be completely legal if Butterfly was also selling a harder topsheet on the 05 Hard. Or one with slightly lower pips. And they don't have to tell anyone, either.

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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 03:51 
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From what I’ve heard the Neo topsheets are less tacky than the regular non-Neo topsheets. I’ve seen comparisons where someone can pickup the ball with H3 just by touching the top of the ball with the rubber and having it stick for a second, then they try the same thing with Neo and can’t do it.


I’ve only used Neo so I can’t confirm. Just wondering what everyone else thinks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 04:20 
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The couple of sheets of H3 I had were quite tacky to begin with (though no more tacky than, say, CJ8000 or Corbor - especially Corbor, which was really clingy..) but fairly quickly lost tack with use. Especially when you've boosted it. People say the slow feel of H3 is due to the tack - maybe it is, but I noticed it still behaved the same way (drop a ball on the racket and it would pretty much just die there rather than bounce off) even after the tack had gone away.

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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 04:24 
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Here is the video I’m talking about. The infamous “tackiness test” starts at the 4:20 mark. Opinions?


https://youtu.be/G5BNkWN9s1E


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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 07:50 
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BryanY wrote:
From what I’ve heard the Neo topsheets are less tacky than the regular non-Neo topsheets. I’ve seen comparisons where someone can pickup the ball with H3 just by touching the top of the ball with the rubber and having it stick for a second, then they try the same thing with Neo and can’t do it.


I’ve only used Neo so I can’t confirm. Just wondering what everyone else thinks.


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No difference in tackiness. The video that you posted shows the same.

Julian


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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 02:45 
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Iguana wrote:
Thanks for the overview. You are missing one variant, the Nittaku Hurricane 3 (without Pro).
The German Nittaku page says it is has a "Japanese Powersponge", Chinese topsheet (obviously), glued together in China.
https://nittaku.tt/collections/noppen-i ... urricane-3
Thank you for sharing. Actually that rubber has been discontinued which is why I didn't list it. I believe it's a predecessor of the Turbo rubbers.

Julian


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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 16:47 
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Alex (haggisv) confirmed that DHS is now marketing National H3 Player Edition rubbers so I added that category. I also started on the FAQ. Let me know if you have questions.


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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2020, 20:20 
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FAQ Updated


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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2020, 00:24 
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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2020, 20:51 
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JulianTT wrote:
Do H3 rubbers need a "break-in" period?
Various forum post claim that new rubber sheets need a "break-in" period of up to 10 days to achieve their best playing characteristics. That is nonsense. Consider this: top players commonly apply new rubbers every 1-3 days during tournaments. According to these geniuses, the top players in the world never achieve the full potential of their rubbers. How stupid of them, right? So no, new rubbers don't need a "break-in" period. What I suspect happens is the other way around, the player adapts to the new rubber and uses it more effectively, therefore thinking that now the rubber plays better.
Of course you are right, no rubber needs a breaking in. But consider: any object exposed to stress changes. Because of the applied pressure at ball impact sponges are getting softer, chemical and physical reactions are happening in the topsheet that is exposed to light, air, liquids. I'm not even talking about fading out of any boosters... The amount of change is the most pronounced at the beginning.

So H3 - as well any other rubber -, changes its playing characteristics with use. Call it beaking in, call it wear - it doesn't matter. For us normal players using a rubber for months and replacing it only a few times a year, it is ok getting used to the characteristics after several hours of use. For pros this is not acceptable, as they are required to use a spare racket at short notice and be comfortable with it at once. So they have to replace their equipment frequently.

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PostPosted: 09 Nov 2020, 00:20 
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0x556c69 wrote:
JulianTT wrote:
Do H3 rubbers need a "break-in" period?
Various forum post claim that new rubber sheets need a "break-in" period of up to 10 days to achieve their best playing characteristics. That is nonsense. Consider this: top players commonly apply new rubbers every 1-3 days during tournaments. According to these geniuses, the top players in the world never achieve the full potential of their rubbers. How stupid of them, right? So no, new rubbers don't need a "break-in" period. What I suspect happens is the other way around, the player adapts to the new rubber and uses it more effectively, therefore thinking that now the rubber plays better.
Of course you are right, no rubber needs a breaking in. But consider: any object exposed to stress changes. Because of the applied pressure at ball impact sponges are getting softer, chemical and physical reactions are happening in the topsheet that is exposed to light, air, liquids. I'm not even talking about fading out of any boosters... The amount of change is the most pronounced at the beginning.

So H3 - as well any other rubber -, changes its playing characteristics with use. Call it beaking in, call it wear - it doesn't matter. For us normal players using a rubber for months and replacing it only a few times a year, it is ok getting used to the characteristics after several hours of use. For pros this is not acceptable, as they are required to use a spare racket at short notice and be comfortable with it at once. So they have to replace their equipment frequently.


I'm sure we all could get used to playing with brand new rubber all of the time, just like we get used to playing with our used. Pros get access to cheap/free equipment and use equipment far more than club players. They hit the ball much harder in general too. I'm sure some of them change every few days, some might change much later. Timo Boll has 6-7 blades ready and changes based on variables, like the weather.

I believe that most equipment club players use is way too fast for them and after a couple of weeks of play these many new rubbers calm down a little bit in spin sensitivity. H3 and other Chinese rubbers change too but differently. I'll go back to the point of this thread: H3 Neo which I use on my forehand becomes less tacky and it makes a real difference in short pushing and serving. Looping and other aggressive shots feel about the same to me new or worn. Those first 2 weeks are rough for pushing and serving for me - I put so much into the net because it retains the ball. Now my choices are to always keep that fresh H3 Neo feeling going for two weeks (I'm sure less for pros) or to let it wear and remove some of the tack and use it for months and have that be my H3 Neo that I am used to. Still tacky, still slower and less spin sensitive, but not as slow in more passive shots as brand new.

The perfect H3 rubber for me would be one where a junior had it for a few sessions and played on it for 15+ hours.


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