OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 23 Sep 2020, 01:00


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: How to attack with LP
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 13:08 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 31 Jan 2011, 17:08
Posts: 12
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Hi everyone,

I come from Malaysian. I was a short pip players for many years and changed to LP chopper about 6 months ago.

I have been facing this problem since I changed to chopper.

I have no problem to chop a strong forward spin or under spin. But when face with soft return or high ball return to backhand. I always lost the point. Either allowing opponent to counter attack or I hit out.

I tried to improve my back hand attack using LP for the past one week. However, I still find it lack to accuracy. On the average, the success rate is less than 50%. I like to smash using LP but often I over hit it.

Just which is the suitable attacking stroke for a chopper. I normally position myself about 1 - 1.5 m away from the table. Sometime go even further if returning a top spin.

thanks in advance.


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 15:45 
Offline
Chopoleon Bonaparte
User avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2009, 07:21
Posts: 842
Location: New York, New York
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 140 times
Blade: Nittaku Shake Defense
FH: Nittaku Fastarc C-1 1.8mm
BH: Bomb Talent OX
Attacking high balls to the backhand with an LP is not easy, especially if you use it in OX (which I'm not sure whether you do or not). The best thing to do if the ball is high is either to step around and use your forehand if you have time or, if not, twiddle and use your inverted rubber. If I have to use LP against a high ball, one thing I sometimes do is chop down diagonally from over my left shoulder. Once you get a feel for how to do this (it takes a bit of practice, but it can be a relatively high percentage shot for you once you get the hang of it), the ball's path is pretty wicked and can cause a lot of errors, so that even if they return it, you'll be able to put the next one away, but players around and above 2000 usually know how to deal with this kind of chop if it's not well placed, so you have to be careful. If you have to smash a high ball with LP, just go straight at and down through the ball in a straight line aimed right at your opponent's table; the difficulty with this is that when the ball is high, you often can't get your paddle high enough to start this shot at the right angle, so you wind up starting out too low and hitting the ball beyond the end of the table. Because of this issue, another possibility is to attack the ball with a slight sideways (clockwise or left to right) wrist motion, which allows the pips to grip it and gets you more control at the cost of sacrificing speed (unless you do this very quickly and aggressively).

That's if the ball is high to your backhand; if it's a low soft ball, then your pips give you a lot of attacking options (especially with a sponge). The easiest balls to attack with pips are balls with some backspin close to the net. You can really turn on those with that same clockwise motion and turn that underspin into topspin and angle the ball well with a lot of control. If the ball has no spin and is soft and near the net, you can still do this, but it's a bit more tricky; you need to get more of it with the sideswipe motion to give your pips a chance to control it and create a bit of your own spin to attack it with. Again, this is easier to do with sponge, so if you play OX (which I don't), someone else here may be better able to help you with this kind of shot.

Finally, if the ball is further back on your table and soft but low, if you don't use a sponge, you should probably not attack it; keep chopping away unless you have time to twiddle or use your forehand. If you use sponge with your LP, you can definitely attack this kind of ball with that same slight-sideways motion (but you need more forearm and sometimes even shoulder involved when the ball is further back), but that requires touch and practice, and each LP is a bit different in terms of its ability to make this kind of shot, so you have to experiment a bit.

Finally, I will say this: it took me a long, long time to learn to attack with my LP effectively, and I'm still learning, of course, but I'm at the point where I can attack many balls with my LP, and those attacks can often end the point outright or else set up a forehand attack, so don't get discouraged at your low success rate because it'll take awhile to get this right. But when you do, many of your opponents will have a very hard time dealing with the results.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 17:15 
Offline
New Member
User avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2011, 01:35
Posts: 40
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times
TraditionalTradesman wrote:
Attacking high balls to the backhand with an LP is not easy, especially if you use it in OX (which I'm not sure whether you do or not). The best thing to do if the ball is high is either to step around and use your forehand if you have time or, if not, twiddle and use your inverted rubber. If I have to use LP against a high ball, one thing I sometimes do is chop down diagonally from over my left shoulder. Once you get a feel for how to do this (it takes a bit of practice, but it can be a relatively high percentage shot for you once you get the hang of it), the ball's path is pretty wicked and can cause a lot of errors, so that even if they return it, you'll be able to put the next one away, but players around and above 2000 usually know how to deal with this kind of chop if it's not well placed, so you have to be careful. If you have to smash a high ball with LP, just go straight at and down through the ball in a straight line aimed right at your opponent's table; the difficulty with this is that when the ball is high, you often can't get your paddle high enough to start this shot at the right angle, so you wind up starting out too low and hitting the ball beyond the end of the table. Because of this issue, another possibility is to attack the ball with a slight sideways (clockwise or left to right) wrist motion, which allows the pips to grip it and gets you more control at the cost of sacrificing speed (unless you do this very quickly and aggressively).

That's if the ball is high to your backhand; if it's a low soft ball, then your pips give you a lot of attacking options (especially with a sponge). The easiest balls to attack with pips are balls with some backspin close to the net. You can really turn on those with that same clockwise motion and turn that underspin into topspin and angle the ball well with a lot of control. If the ball has no spin and is soft and near the net, you can still do this, but it's a bit more tricky; you need to get more of it with the sideswipe motion to give your pips a chance to control it and create a bit of your own spin to attack it with. Again, this is easier to do with sponge, so if you play OX (which I don't), someone else here may be better able to help you with this kind of shot.

Finally, if the ball is further back on your table and soft but low, if you don't use a sponge, you should probably not attack it; keep chopping away unless you have time to twiddle or use your forehand. If you use sponge with your LP, you can definitely attack this kind of ball with that same slight-sideways motion (but you need more forearm and sometimes even shoulder involved when the ball is further back), but that requires touch and practice, and each LP is a bit different in terms of its ability to make this kind of shot, so you have to experiment a bit.

Finally, I will say this: it took me a long, long time to learn to attack with my LP effectively, and I'm still learning, of course, but I'm at the point where I can attack many balls with my LP, and those attacks can often end the point outright or else set up a forehand attack, so don't get discouraged at your low success rate because it'll take awhile to get this right. But when you do, many of your opponents will have a very hard time dealing with the results.


Wow. Thank you very much.
I often search for such well-defined description of some strokes.
That will help me a lot for practicing new technics or improve them.
Which there where more often kind of this very good descriptons

_________________
Blade1: BTY Andrzej Grubba ALL+ / FH: SpinLord Waran 2.0 / BH: S&T Hellfire OX
Blade2: Andro Fibercomp DEF / FH: SpinLord Degu 1,5 / BH: Desperado OX
Blade3: TSP Balsa Fitter 2.5 / FH: Joola Samba+ 2,0 / BH: SpinLord Dornenglanz ox
----
Blade4: Joola Tony Hold White Spot / FH: Dawei Navigator GT 4A 1,2 / BH: Palio CK531a slick as an mirror for advanced education :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 17:41 
Offline
Count Darkula
Count Darkula
User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 15:07
Posts: 17501
Location: Dark side of Australia!!
Has thanked: 422 times
Been thanked: 290 times
Blade: Bty Gergely T5000
FH: TSP Regalis Blue Max
BH: Tibhar Grass Dtecs
If you can follow TTradesmans advice then that is cool. Personally I don't like to twiddle for a BH putaway because I find the difference in power between inverted and OX LP to be so vast that I'm likely to over-hit with the inverted on the BH anyway.

Now I suggest a week is nothing in learning to hit/attack with LP. I have been teaching myself this for over 2 years and I know most probably where you are at as I also used to baulk at attacking high balls with my LP. These days I will attack a lot with my LP, but almost never a highly topspinning ball. It takes a lot of time to recognise which balls to attack, where on the table to hit them and just how hard to actually hit and keep it on the table. Like any TT shot there is always risk and always misses. The only way to learn though is to keep at it and don't be afraid to attack and don't be afraid to miss. In practice, build up this ethic and be more careful in matches until attacking with the LP has become second nature. Only in the past few months have I really been succeeding on bringing LP attacks effectively into my match game. I have had it going more and more strongly in my practice games and hit-ups for perhaps a year. Every now and then in that year it has turned ON in a match and I have destroyed unsuspecting opponents with it. Now it is becoming more solid and beginning to become a staple in my shot selection, especially with a ball that either sits up or is under spinning on the BH. A higher ball has become one of the easiest for me to smash off my BH as I have worked out the right action for my arm and body to make it successful, whether close into the net or further back. With these weapons I now find opponents are choosing less to focus on keeping the ball to my BH as there is now a danger there. However, most have known for a long time the danger that is on my FH, so it leaves them in more quandry than a year or even 6 months ago.

What I think I am trying to get across here is the fact that it can be done, but you have to commit yourself and your mind to an aggressive outlook with the BH and be willing to keep trialling to make it work. Read the ball spin, adjust your blade angle, take the ball in front of your body and strike downward toward the net as the ball rises. Sure some will go long and others will go in the net. But as you hit a few on the table it will feel so good, and you'll think "did I just do that?", you will want to do it more and more. Its a great feeling to hit good LP shots back with pace, and most opponent struggle with the spin (or no spin) that the ball carries, depending on what it had on before your shot. The physics just don't work for heavy topspin as the margin for error is just too small. There are some who may be able to do it, but its better to chop or block to create backspin with LP IMO. Hope this helps.

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! :twisted: Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.


Last edited by RebornTTEvnglist on 20 May 2011, 23:51, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 21:18 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 31 Jan 2011, 17:08
Posts: 12
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Dear TraditionalTradesman/RebornTTEvnglist

Really appreciate your help. Thanks a lot. Will try it in next session.

By the way, I am using Tackifire D on my forehand and TSP Curl P1R on back hand. My blade is Butterfly JSH.

Million thanks again.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 May 2011, 02:09 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 27 Feb 2010, 12:03
Posts: 80
Location: Seattle
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
I am in the beginning stages of learning how to attack with LP also. I was also having trouble with the high backspin balls, and have learned to do the shot that Traditional recommends against them, and the effect it has on opponents is just as he described. This shot is much easier to land than an attack.

On other balls, in general I hit the same shots as with BH inverted, but with more of a vertical follow through. My follow through is pretty much straight up against backspin.

_________________
Nittaku Endless, Bomb Talent ox, Mark V 1.8


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 May 2011, 02:19 
Offline
Chopoleon Bonaparte
User avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2009, 07:21
Posts: 842
Location: New York, New York
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 140 times
Blade: Nittaku Shake Defense
FH: Nittaku Fastarc C-1 1.8mm
BH: Bomb Talent OX
Just to clarify what I wrote and to agree with something RebornTTEvnglist wrote, it's very difficult for an LP to attack heavy topspin balls, and among the techniques I was discussing, the only one that, in my experience, works consistently against those is that high diagonal-downward chop from over your left shoulder (unless, of course, you twiddle or have time to use your forehand, but that also requires training). Usually, with high, heavy topspin to my backhand, I'll just go back and wait for the ball to drop and chop it, with the result being a LOT of backspin for your opponent to deal with. Unless they're a great looper, you'll get a push that you can attack on the next ball.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 May 2011, 07:40 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 03 Oct 2007, 13:49
Posts: 661
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
In addition to the advice given above, following video of Dr N may help to learn the art of attacking with long pips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDwMMJOZrEQ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 May 2011, 11:39 
Offline
For your Long A's Only
For your Long A's Only
User avatar

Joined: 14 Dec 2007, 14:05
Posts: 4587
Location: USA
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 31 times
Blade: BBC Doubl Diamond
FH: Prasidha Tokyo Max
BH: RITC 755 OX
guan1966 wrote:


By the way, I am using Tackifire D on my forehand and TSP Curl P1R on back hand. My blade is Butterfly JSH.

Million thanks again.


If you want to attack with your LP, change your LP rubber, P1r is great for chopping but not as effective and more difficult to attack. A few of the various LP, OX or sponge, from 0.5 to 1.3 mm, mentioned elsewhere in this forum, are good for attacking, even against heavy top spin. 755, 1615, Long A, Magic Monkey, 837 are the ones that I have tried and found best for attacking. However, I must warn you though, it took me more than a few years to get the blade angle and timing in tune for LP attacking. Patience is your best friend. :)

Contrary to popular believe, OX LP can be very effective in attacking, it is a matter of timing and how you stroke the incoming balls. ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 May 2011, 11:58 
Offline
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2007, 14:36
Posts: 5232
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 179 times
From your initial description, it looked like you were a penholder. Those balls give penholder who do not step around fit after fit. After seeing your blade, I see you are a shakehander. We have a ton of LP players here, mostly OX. An effective way is to hit the ball on the way up. Use a more open blade than inverted. Move body forward, use a short stroke, have good timing, use wrist to finish. You will have a good paced flat ball that is very ackward for the opponent and suprisingly difficult to return. That shot will be a point winner or a good pressure shot. This also keeps you in position to continue giving your opponent PUNTA, that is if the shot comes back. Taking it on the way up robs the opponent of time, disrupts the timing, and can cause a weeker return, which if you struck it well, might not be returned.

Pushblocker does something different to those. He blocks them with his OX to an ackward position to move the opponent and tempt him into a low percentage attack, then blocks the ball the other way if it comes back.

You shape up to be a much more aggressive player looking for an offensive solution to that situation.

Good luck and talk to us about how you solved this in a way that worked for you.

_________________
Nexy Batos ALC - FH Tibhar MX-K - BH Tibhar FX-S
President, Korea Foreign TTC
http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

Hit us up on FB or the Forum

Janitor at Nexy USA
http://www.NexyUSA.com
http://www.facebook.com/Nexyusa/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 May 2011, 01:50 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 31 Jan 2011, 17:08
Posts: 12
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Der_Echte

Thanks. I played with 1.0mm sponge on my P1R. It is mostly for chopping away from table.

tatlwai

thanks. I used 1.0mm sponge coz mostly I chop away from the table. I use this as it give control and also spin reversal when return a loop. I try to attack just because certain player hardly loop and they just play with placing and this give me a lot of headache.

Bogart45

Sometime I m able to attack just that it dont have the consistency. Less than 50% hit rate. Obviously, it always give my opponent problem if landed on their table. May be I should try new style then.

In term of playing style, I like to chop(defense) especially against offensive player. So long it is top spin or loop, I will chop return if it is on my backhand. Basically, I am confident with my chop either near or away from table against looping.

I will try it out next few weeks and let you all have my feedback.

Thanks again and have a nice weekend.

Sing Guan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 May 2011, 03:17 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 00:48
Posts: 2291
Location: Redwood City, California
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 157 times
Blade: BBC
FH: SP
BH: LP
I have TSP Curl P1R 1.0mm and it is not well suited for attack. I recommend two things for you:

1) Change your LP to either Giant Dragon Talon OX, Pogo OX, or Pogo 0.6mm. You want a stiff soft-faced blade for the OX LPs, and keep your LP clean at all times to maintain the grip and consistency that you need for #2..

2) Develop your BH LP topspin stroke that some call the roll stroke. All three of the LPs listed above can perform that stroke (but many less grippy LPs cannot), but it does take lots of practice as the timing is critical.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 May 2011, 13:36 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 31 Jan 2011, 17:08
Posts: 12
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time
nathanso wrote:
I have TSP Curl P1R 1.0mm and it is not well suited for attack. I recommend two things for you:

1) Change your LP to either Giant Dragon Talon OX, Pogo OX, or Pogo 0.6mm. You want a stiff soft-faced blade for the OX LPs, and keep your LP clean at all times to maintain the grip and consistency that you need for #2..

2) Develop your BH LP topspin stroke that some call the roll stroke. All three of the LPs listed above can perform that stroke (but many less grippy LPs cannot), but it does take lots of practice as the timing is critical.


nathanso


Thanks. But I understand that OX is not really good for chopping away from table. Defense with chop is my main skill. I only go for attacking if opponent play soft and close to table.

Sing Guan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 May 2011, 17:00 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 29 Dec 2009, 06:58
Posts: 97
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 0 time
I chop with pimples OX. If I get pushed back I chop with my NAT 999 on my forehand . If opponent gives you topspin back again twiddle and use your pips. You have to aim a bit higher than your inverted. It goes back with a LOT of spin. Very hard to loop back because it usually double bounces. Normally pushed back. If it gets over the net you are there to put away.

_________________
Re-impact Tachi+Juic Turbo 999 blk. BH- GD Talon Oxred.
Hallmark Aurora FH-GlobeNat 999 blk BH-Giant Talon Ox red.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 May 2011, 18:27 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 31 Jan 2011, 17:08
Posts: 12
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Hi everyone,

After trying for one week. There are improvement.

1. Must not be afraid to loss.
2. Do not hit with full force.
3. Use small motion instead whole body swing.

Such a satisfaction when see opponent return into the net. Yes....

Sing Guan


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group