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LOOPOVER
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2014, 18:32 
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iskandar taib
PostPosted: 30 Oct 2014, 15:48 
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Ah.. I suddenly remembered where I'd seen slowed-down video of table tennis balls spinning. Not sure how strong the loops they show are, but you can see the ball spinning (it's not an unrecognizable blur):



e.g. around 2:56.

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bmann1942
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2015, 01:01 
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agenthex wrote:
If you've ever seen the two tone-ball in action it basically becomes a blur at anything but very low spin, and with a super-fast camera, reducing the speed to where the spin is discernible means everything else standing still. The motivation was good, but I at least found the execution lacking.

The fundamental problem is that most points don't produce epic rallies, and all but experts have no idea what's happening; the ITTF is right on this point. Sure you can explain after the fact given enough time (there currently isn't and doing so would really extend match times), Better commentary in that direction needs to be part of the show, but it's still a terrible experience to watch for nothing on most points. What I mean is that even in the best case, a nuanced spin/no-spin serve, it takes a very highly skilled operator/commentator on the level of the players to pick this up nevermind work the equipment & point out highlights before the next point starts. Again, imagine the experience of watching poker without the hole-cam and the commentators explaining what happened only after the action, and only of the discarded hole cards they can logically piece back together. The hole-cam made post-analysis much better, too.

Presumably the flow if this exist is that the info's visible but unobstructing, like the ball itself can be color-coded with the same technology, and your own focus gradually shifts entirely to the broader point if a rally starts. Also with general ball-tracking, path-tracing would make the point much more interesting for analysis. Let's be honest, how many club players nevermind general spectators really understand what's going on in pro matches? Does a few select slo-mo of the serves really help? These are important questions to not only ask but resolve.

IMO there are only a few key pieces of "hidden" information necessary to make TT a much better show for everyone. Spin is definitely one of them.


You have identified a fundamental problem quite well; table tennis as presently played at its highest levels is baffling to all but those very few people (virtually all international level players and coaches) acquainted with what's actually going on. And what's actually going on occurs so quickly that there is no time for a spectator unfamiliar with the sport to begin to acquaint him- or herself with what is going on.

And, unless there are not a few more "epic" rallies in present day world class table tennis, why would you think that a basic understanding of spin, which can be a hindrance, not necessarily a help to producing epic rallies, would be a factor in making table tennis more watchable?
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iskandar taib
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2015, 18:27 
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I suppose, if we go to hardbat, there won't be any of these 10,000 RPM loops any more and the two color ball could be less of a blur...

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shaolinTT
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2015, 02:24 
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If we want TT to be popular, we need to start with the young kids.
I spent the first 12 years of my life in Asia. TT was fun, AFFORDABLE and ACCESSIBLE. Any little kid could save up $ to buy the first bat and balls. My school provided the tables and we could play. Even when we could not get the tables because the bigger kids got the tables first, we could find "creative ways" to hit the TT balls around. At home, and like many kids, I made good use of mom's mahjong tables to play TT :D .
Is TT affordable and accessible to young kids? I don't know. What I do know is that "making TT more fun to watch on TV" is NOT a good way to promote our sport.
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bmann1942
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2015, 05:19 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I suppose, if we go to hardbat, there won't be any of these 10,000 RPM loops any more and the two color ball could be less of a blur...

Iskandar


I cannot imagine a world without 10,000 rpm loop drives. It's too horrible to contemplate. It would be like summer in the southwest without sunshine and 105 degree temperatures.

What would we have to look backward to if we were to return to hardbat? 115 mph smashes by 5'6" guys in long pants. 100 mph fh slap shots right into the kishkas. Backhand flicks at warp speed. 15 mph balloon chops from 55 feet back of the table. Delicate little drop shots that bounce 47 times before a defender 55 feet away can get to them.

And oh yeah, a 115 mph smash, not to mention a 100 mph fh drive or a warp speed bh flick is likely to render a two-color ball indistinguishable from the traditional one-color 38 mm. special to all but the color blind.
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Blondie
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2015, 01:19 
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I would guess the more influence China gets on the world the bigger the sport will be. But I think it's hard to make a big change in some countries since many sees table tennis like a hobby and something to do for fun in the schoolyard.
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iskandar taib
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2015, 11:38 
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Actually, even in China table tennis has been eclipsed by badminton (and especially soccer).

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Blondie
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2015, 08:05 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Actually, even in China table tennis has been eclipsed by badminton (and especially soccer).

Iskandar


Do you mean that Badminton is bigger than table tennis in China?
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iskandar taib
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2015, 01:16 
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From what I understand, yes. The top ranked Badminton players are Chinese (Lin Dan and Chen Long). Lots of strong women players, too.

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Blondie
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2015, 07:09 
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iskandar taib wrote:
From what I understand, yes. The top ranked Badminton players are Chinese (Lin Dan and Chen Long). Lots of strong women players, too.

Iskandar


ok, did not know that at all. Thanks for the information but I was hoping TT would be bigger!
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roundrobin
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2015, 07:44 
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Badminton is huge in California, USA as well. Almost all high schools and colleges here have badminton teams and offer badminton classes, and virtually zero high school or college here offers any type of table tennis in their official curriculum.
I am playing badminton three times a week. It's easily a much more physical sport than table tennis. So many more girls playing it too, which makes it more fun. ;) Lots of smiles and laughter all around.
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iskandar taib
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2015, 21:15 
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It's huge here, too. Doesn't hurt that we're nowhere in table tennis but our best player is one of the top in the world (ranking was #1, but Lin Dan was only #2 because he didn't play a lot of tournaments). We used to win the Thomas Cup every few years and had a huge rivalry with Indonesia. Theyu showed matches on TV and practically everyone would stop whatever they were doing to watch.

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RebornTTEvnglist
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2015, 02:06 
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I pose an alternate view about the popularity of our sport. Would it really be of benefit to us as players if the sport became as big as soccer for example? If big money and corporates took over the game like they do other sports and the common man is left out in the cold for much of it....would that really be a benefit to the current grassroots player in the sport (and I'm hypothesising about grassroots players being pushed aside by these big money people in preference to the players THEY consider should play the game. This would include BIG MONEY directing the ITTF and Affiliates to run TT centres THEIR way). I'm not so sure that would be great for the sport.

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mynamenotbob
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2015, 03:12 
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If table tennis was suddenly as popular as tennis, that would be a great thing.

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