OOAK Table Tennis Forum

And remember fastmover, it's not just about doing the drill...it's about the...

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Same here Laj. I sometimes don't know what to do with the forehand, especially when the loop barely bounces. I'm not yet good enough to consistently make the counter loop.

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BTW, BRS and Big D came to Trolley today.

I played more TT today than I have played in a while.

The pips encourage BRS to block and hit (which he likes to do on his backhand) and not to loop (which he hates on his backhand). I think for him it was a move in the right direction.

He is definitely a solid 2000 player now. Probably may struggle against someone who can control the pace and slow down the game but everything BRS does is better. He practices enough to know his game and it is paying off.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Awesome. I should have showed up.

Ben started playing in his 40's and he's a solid 2000 player. That's a real achievement by any way of measuring success.

I want to know if he's coordinating his backhand well, like Randy in ETTS50? It's even more important with pimples.

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I was too busy chasing the ball or losing the point to notice. So it had to be good technique.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Sometimes, not always. The pips are still work in progress. When I do time it right they make a very nasty hit.

You should have showed up! That would have made a great day even better.

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Yoko Ono

I've been pretty sick the last couple of weeks and finally did a little practice today. I felt like I lost nothing in practice because I knew how to execute shots - what needs to be done. Watching lots of video and studying really helps when you can do nothing else.

Also you guys are simply awesome. I'm glad NL has returned too!

Brett, can you make a video where you pivot against long sidespin serves (both pendulum and reverse)? I want to see the... technique.

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Tactics Enthusiast

I don't think the technique is any different. The problem is that most of us adult learners don't focus on the first bounce and the ball path early. Since I can't practice too much, I am focusing on reading the game better and I think I have often been lazy on reading the first bounce on the other side despite coaching to do so. There is a lot of information you can collect over a match on how far you need to move with your first step on that first bounce and it is failing to take that information seriously that leads to trouble on serve return usually.

The truly great servers can mess you up with the first bounce. But you won't be playing those guys at under 2400 level and if you do and they are under 2000, you will win the point if you put the ball back on the table.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I've never met anyone who serves long reverse pendulum to my bh where pivoting would be called for. I see really good players do it on youtube so they can mix short to fh with long to bh, but everyone I have played always serves reverse pendulum short to fh. It 's predictable to the point that when you see their hand go behind their back on the backswing you can already step over and in to receive it with your bh.

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Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

A lot of players have reasonable backhand serves, and they serve a lot to my backhand long. Even if I can put it back on the table with my BH loop, it is sometimes not strong enough to prevent a counterattack (mostly a BH punch). Also my BH sometimes completely whacks off under pressure: I just miss 100% in a particular game or even a match. That is why I need to learn to pivot against these serves. People get away with serving long serves that are complete junk to my BH and I cannot kill them due the lack of touch.

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Tactics Enthusiast

Overall, I think it is important to be able to adapt your current game plan to the shape you are in. I've heard several times from good players (>2300 USATT) something like this: "Sometimes on a tournament day I realize that my topspin game is off. So I just let them attack and block." So if my BH is off for whatever reason, I should be able to pivot.

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Tactics Enthusiast

This makes sense. You meant reverse spin, I interpreted it as reverse pendulum.

NL has those bh serves long to the bh and tormented me and Dan with them all day yesterday. It was always topspin except when you were ready for topspin, then he would throw in a backspin. And like all the players with that serve, he has the big fh to kill it when the sidespin pulls your receive to his fh side. If you are highly likely to lose the point on receive or third ball anyway, pivoting is optimal tactics.

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Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

It will be interesting to hear Brett's take. In this modern plastic ball era, it is so much harder to keep opponents off you with spin. The first topspin is important but not what it used to be in terms of just spin. That said there are a few things about placement that are important. It is also important to learn to take the ball later when the serve is truly long, even with the backhand. It is taking it off the bounce when you are jammed by it that often leads to weak returns. Pivoting is a good option for the right kind of opponent.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

My immediate thoughts when I read this request were: 1. Is his real problem anticipating long serves. 2. Is his real problem reading spin.

If you are anticipating long serves well, which means to pick up the cues from the opponent's backswing and torso movement (consciously or subconsciously), you can almost walk around the corner and just loop the serve.

If you are just missing the ball because you don't read the spin, it doesn't mater what I say because no one can type the words to make a player read spin. No one can type the words to make you understand Japanese either. Reading spin is like understanding a language. There is no better way to learn Japanese than going to Japan. There is no better way to learn spin than to consistently be exposed to it.

So what do you think is really going on here? Are you late or are you misreading the spin? Is your real question about looping sidespin?

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