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PostPosted: 16 Jan 2019, 13:17 
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Chicken feet?? :lol:

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2019, 17:55 
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lol, mudflap

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PostPosted: 04 Apr 2019, 20:47 
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nathanso wrote:
Look into the LP "mudflap" attack, promoted by players like Dr Neubauer in his DVD training videos and more recently used in high-level competition by Zhang Guochi: https://youtu.be/CikWCfYsGew

It's simple to do on short- and mid-length backspin balls, and very effective when directed at a far corner or elbow. Search this site for the word "mudflap" for notes I've made over the years in other threads, particularly about the suitability of some LPs over others for this stroke. GD Talon OX works well for the mudflap, iirc, but not all LPs do!


Nathanso - Thanks for this rather effective stroke .... I've been practicing/using it, quite a bit (mostly with Setup No. 2, in my signature), ... I play this stroke against short-mid length backspin balls, and when I do get it right, what the opponent receives is a ball with a weird bounce, which is sort of like a sidespin-topspin (is it called a screwball ?) ...Most opponents (even higher ranked ones), find it awkward, and get foxed by the weird bounce...

However, I am yet to achieve consistency, with this stroke.... A lot of times, the balls goes long, or, into the net .... Also, I can't seem to get this stroke to work, against certain players, who use a cut/slice type of push, that generates massive amount (I'm talking god-level) of backspin... The ball just drops into the net... I'm not sure if this is a technique issue (Do I need to draw my blade up higher ?), or whether the backspin is so massive that it exceeds the threshold of my setup (Not sure, if I'm explaining it right) ...

Anyway, I shall keep practicing (and fine-tuning) this stroke....

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PostPosted: 04 Apr 2019, 23:04 
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The following four quotes are pertinent:

Nebur wrote:
So, this is a problem I only have with high level players (1st class and higher) in the dutch regional league


Quote:
There's 1 femaly player at the club who's been multiple club champion and I have absolutely no chance against.


Quote:
I had to play a match as substitute for a regular player in the 1st class.


Quote:
The backspin is so strong I can't loop it with my FH, my topspin is just not extreme enough to counter it.


I can't believe it's taken me this long to learn this... but some players are just *too good*. They're not unbeatable, eventually, but they're just too strong. The final quote tells you what you need to work on. In shock news, to compete with players a class or more above you, you need to work on aspects of your game until you level up.

I lost a horrible game this season in a must win match to win promotion. My opponent (former international from a small SE Asian Island nation) serves hugely fast heavy backspin into my bh lp, and screamed a FH attack past me 9/10 times. I lost in the fifth. I had no answer. Since then I've been training twiddling and receiving serve with my inverted side, so this serve is not as dangerous. There's a long way to go, but I've used it in matches already, and it's got me out of jail already. But I've put in a lot of training time on it.

The LP-answers offered (mudflap/shovel/bump) is an alternative, but I don't think it's as effective as simply using a BH topspin. Both are useful weapons though.

Quote:
Extreme backspin is just the weak point of my game


It's the achilles heel of most modern defenders. My coach included. So expect it, and armour up.

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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2019, 03:07 
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OK, someone please explain the chicken feet. Chicken WING, I've heard of.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2019, 18:07 
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iskandar taib wrote:
OK, someone please explain the chicken feet. Chicken WING, I've heard of.

Iskandar


Okay... I'll attempt to explain my interpretation of the term Chicken Wing ... Infact, I was wondering what it meant, until just very recently, when it dawned upon me, while playing against a fellow close-to-the-table, right-handed LP blocker, who has virtually no FH... However, he is rather adept at blocking anything and everything with his BH, even if it is meant to be played with the FH ...

We were practicing, and I was top-spinning ... One, from my FH side to his BH, and next from my FH, to what would be his FH... However, he was blocking with his BH, and while doing so, his elbow and forearm were in a position that made it look like chicken-wings...

Image

Image

With the above image, just image the guy forearm extending downwards, from his elbow, while playing TT

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Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2019, 22:25 
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Wow! Thanks for posting that ootbs, I don't remember seeing this clip! :o :o :o

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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2019, 03:34 
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haggisv wrote:
Wow! Thanks for posting that ootbs, I don't remember seeing this clip! :o :o :o


Glad to be of service ...

I find this stroke, very effective, when I get it right.

Would I be correct, if I said that the mudflap works only against backspin, and not against dead/no-spin/loose balls...?

Also, what would be the difference in outcome, if I played this with a grippy OX pip, as compared to a non or low-grippy one, such as the 388D ?

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Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2019, 05:58 
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ootbs wrote:
Would I be correct, if I said that the mudflap works only against backspin, and not against dead/no-spin/loose balls...?

Also, what would be the difference in outcome, if I played this with a grippy OX pip, as compared to a non or low-grippy one, such as the 388D ?
Yes, correct. The mudflap is harder to do with a grippy LP.. balls tend to land in the net more against very heavy backspin and racket angle becomes more important. It's been years since I tried 388D-1 so I won't venture a comment on that one.


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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2019, 06:43 
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Its a shot I do very often. I have been able to do it with all my long pips (i havent used many though) which includes palio ck53a1, dhs cf3, and stiga destroyer.


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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2019, 17:01 
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nathanso wrote:
]Yes, correct. The mudflap is harder to do with a grippy LP.. balls tend to land in the net more against very heavy backspin and racket angle becomes more important.


Lately, I've been playing, mostly with less-grippy LPs, such as CK531A, and 388D ... However, I've realized, the hard way, that certain strokes work better with grippy LPs, as compared to less-grippy ones, and vice-versa.

Say, is there some sort of guide or primer, on strokes/techniques for both, grippy and less-grippy LPs ?

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2019, 21:58 
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Re the original post and the woman with the heavy inverted backspin forehand. You CAN loop that ball if it goes long. Any underspin off the table can be looped. Barricade is a hard blade to loop with so you may need your faster setup. You have to drop you paddle below the table and your right shoulder. Coaching will help. Main thing is that it can be done and YOU can do it.


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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2019, 03:13 
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ootbs wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
OK, someone please explain the chicken feet. Chicken WING, I've heard of.

Iskandar


Okay... I'll attempt to explain my interpretation of the term Chicken Wing ... Infact, I was wondering what it meant, until just very recently, when it dawned upon me, while playing against a fellow close-to-the-table, right-handed LP blocker, who has virtually no FH... However, he is rather adept at blocking anything and everything with his BH, even if it is meant to be played with the FH ...

We were practicing, and I was top-spinning ... One, from my FH side to his BH, and next from my FH, to what would be his FH... However, he was blocking with his BH, and while doing so, his elbow and forearm were in a position that made it look like chicken-wings...


Right. As I said, I've figured out chicken wings. You're playing the ball under your armpit using the backhand side of the blade. And it's not necessarily just long pips blocking, either. I've played against someone who had a pretty nasty surprise inverted chicken wing topspin drive.

BUT WHAT THE HECK IS CHICKEN FEET??? :lol:

haggisv wrote:
Wow! Thanks for posting that ootbs, I don't remember seeing this clip! :o :o :o


You'll notice the subtitles (which are terribly confusing) mentioning chicken feet here. Not sure I see what they mean - I suppose it means the same thing as "mudflap", but I don't see the connection to the chicken feet. The "mudflap" "bump" is pretty obvious - bumps are common with long pips players, but all the ones I've seen don't drop the tip of the bat like this guy does. A lot will swipe the blade to the side, and try to achieve a highly angled and fast return. It's all the same idea - use the incoming backspin to generate topspin by lifting the ball with an open racket face. Actually works best with bare wood (which is now illegal, but lots of penholders still play with bare wood on the reverse side around these parts). This one doesn't seem that fast, either, I've seen faster.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2019, 14:46 
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iskandar taib wrote:
BUT WHAT THE HECK IS CHICKEN FEET??? :lol:


I'm guessing it's translated incorrectly ... So, instead of intended WINGS it came out as FEET...

Alternate Theory - The person who made this video is not familiar with the anatomy of a chicken...

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Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2019, 14:48 
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ootbs wrote:

Say, is there some sort of guide or primer, on strokes/techniques for both, grippy and less-grippy LPs ?


Anyone ... ?

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Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)


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