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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 02:29 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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I am curious to hear others' views, but where I play, everyone with any technique, whether loopers or choppers or long pips blockers, hates the ABS ball. The only people who don't hate it are the "smackers," the guys whose game consists of finding the right blade angle and then slapping the ball. There is an obvious reason for this: the ABS ball responds to imparted spin by shooting sharply down or off to the side after the bounce, but it doesn't actually SPIN very much. This means that whereas in the past, if I blocked or chopped a ball and left it just a little bit high above the net, the offensive player would still have to loop back (unless it was VERY high, of course), now offensive players have figured out that they can smack it in for a winner. It used to be the case, for example, that you could deliberately give an offensive player a slightly higher ball loaded with underspin to tempt them into smacking it, and if they did (or even if they did a half-hearted loop), it would go into the net. Now that kind of tactic no longer works and instead gets the ball smacked back at you. I've noticed that even 1400-1500 (U.S.) players with basement technique are having far more success with their pay-no-attention-to-spin smacks against defense. Naturally, I still beat such players pretty easily, but it's more through placement, pips attacks, inverted attacks, etc. than through pure underspin that makes their smacking shots ineffectual.

A friend who is a 2100-level two-winged looper has just decided to try to switch to short pips on his forehand because of this new ball, which makes the effort to use good forehand form to spin not worth it when, instead, you can just put on short pips, shorten your stroke and hit through the ball. I'm not saying anything here that many of us don't already know, but all in all, it seems the ITTF has really screwed up the game, destroyed long offensive vs. defensive rallies and made many of us who labored to learn "proper" technique feel like we've been spat on. I'm actually hoping at this point that the proposals being floated around to raise the height of the net go through because that'll make the smack (or, at higher levels, the loop-drive/loop-kill) a harder shot to execute.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 03:51 
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I disagree. It's far more interesting now than it has been in recent years, with the likes of Harimoto, Hirano and Ito actually challenging the Chinese, and doing it in a breathtaking way. Playing close to the table isn't a new thing - many of the Japanese players have been playing like this for years. Can you just smack the ball horizontally and it'll go in? Maybe more so than in the past, but not universally so. Ito does tend to hit the ball horizontally, but Harimoto doesn't. He takes the ball early but he still strokes upwards and puts lots of spin on the ball. The amount of touch possible is amazing (particularly if you watch Ito), and I think this is partially due to the 40+ ball (not necessarily ABS per se). It's certainly NOT a "basement game".

Is there less spin? Sure. Less speed, too, people at the top have compensated by going with harder sponge and faster blades. Doesn't mean the spin isn't there any more, it certainly is. If your game revolves around "disruption" and dissimilar surfaces, you MIGHT feel that the changes are hurting your game.On the other hand, if you're a touch-blocker and flicker, you'd love the added control. I, personally, feel like I'm playing better than I have ever done in the past, and have more control over the ball. And I'm not an all-out attacking player, either - I rely a lot on my serve, on blocks and drop shots, and angles. I CAN loop, it's just that I don't get the opportunity to do it that often (usually opening up against a push or when returning a long serve). Among the group I play with, about two thirds use long pips (we're mainly geezers), one even uses bare wood on the back of his penhold bat. Yet, when we first started using the ABS ball we all agreed it was the best-playing ball we've ever come across, and universally like it. I bought a box of those bi-color ones, those are our favorite, mainly because it's the most visible (we play where we often get glare from the sky on the table, white balls AND orange balls tend to disappear against the background). The bounce is consistent, the ball flies consistently, we're actually having longer attacking rallies and less of the push-push-push rallies we had in the past.

Maybe short pips will come back, who knows. If it does, well, I don't see the problem. Mattias isn't boring, not by a long shot.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 08:10 
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I have nothing against short pips. I played with them myself for awhile. I like a variety of styles, and short pips is one great style (or, really, in itself a variety of great styles, depending on how they're used).

But on both the pro level and in my own club, I'm seeing SHORTER rallies, not longer ones. I'm seeing defenders no longer able to keep up with attackers, their levels dipping compared to attackers they could once compete with or regularly beat. I'll also tell you that in my club, EVERY SINGLE TOP-LEVEL PLAYER (one 2500+ guy, one 2400+ guy and a bunch of people in the 2200-2300 range) hates the new ball. They find it to be inconsistent and unmanageable. Only one of these people is a defender, and one more plays with short pips on the backhand. The rest are double inverted players, mostly two-winged loopers.

Again, I think the only people whom the ABS ball benefits are the ball-slappers because they can slap away without worrying nearly as much about reading spin. I don't see how that benefits the game.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 10:16 
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We're using the DHS D40+ ball mostly in our region, and although I think it does favour hitters/blockers, I don't think the game has changed that much once people have adjusted. People can still get pleny of spin on the ball, and the ball curves just as much, it's just taken a little away from the spin focussed players, and given a small edge to the hitters.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 13:36 
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I love the ABS way more than the versions of seamless balls.

You can create your own topspin easier from serves, you can hit through spin, and you can counterloop easier.

The new ABS ball give me confidence to play more offensively.

It is two sided - you can make the spin or hit through spin, but you opponent can do it to your nice shot too.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 13:40 
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At the amateur level I think the abs ball has helped bring more pushblockers into the game with it's close to the table no sponge OX long pips play. Before you saw very few OX long pips players now they are abundant.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 15:13 
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THE STONY FEELING OF THE PLASTICS MAKES ME UNHAPPY.

Reportedly, the DHS does continue experiments with chemical formulation of the plastic materials.. The newer ball batches proved to feel clearly harder than the early products. Petrification of ABS material is an apparent trend for all the balls produced by DHS manufactory, A just grievance with most players.


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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 17:59 
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It seems to me that Ox chopping is more difficult and less effective now hence my quest for an ultra thin sponge and slightly less wood feel without loosing too much ox like effects when blocking off the bounce,not sure if this is achievable but will try :Defense:

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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 19:20 
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dazzler wrote:
It seems to me that Ox chopping is more difficult and less effective now hence my quest for an ultra thin sponge and slightly less wood feel without loosing too much ox like effects when blocking off the bounce,not sure if this is achievable but will try :Defense:


Chop blocking with lp OX is one of my strengths. I think is easier now and just as effective as before.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 20:24 
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The seamless balls are certainly made for hitters. I'm not sure about the ABS... We at our club felt the ABS ball to be a looper's ball, the seamless one to be a hitter's one. We used to use the seamless ball and me and a buddy of mine, both spin-based players, were executed by good hitters. I didn't matter what we did: we couldn't win the game. Not anymore since the ABS ball.

I think it isn't the lack of spin that's hurting the spin based players, but the height of the ball bounce. Don't underestimate the influence of the table and the floor it stand on.

The best table I've played on since the introduction of the ABS ball, is the Waldner Classic 25. That's a real spin based table with a medium ball bounce.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2019, 20:45 
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One property that the seamless ball has more of than other balls is the propensity to bounce sideways due to slight sidespin. Takes some getting used to. I imagine this would work against off-the- bounce hitters.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 26 May 2019, 14:44 
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The solid and hard feel at impact igor bemoans is I believe the best property of the ball. I so hate on a ball that feels weak and light at impact.

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PostPosted: 26 May 2019, 18:51 
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Der_Echte wrote:
The solid and hard feel at impact igor bemoans is I believe the best property of the ball. I so hate on a ball that feels weak and light at impact.


STIFF and CRACKY.

Those stony ABS balls of the later editions, they SHOULD go cracked easely.. Too easely..
Those inelastic plastics cant stand the continued impacts onto the table surface because of poor resilience to shocks and stresses, as is an innate demerit for every inflexible plastic material.


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PostPosted: 27 May 2019, 03:01 
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Weird fella, this Igor. You wonder if he's actually used many of these balls if he says they break easily. He's confusing them with the older cellulose acetate balls, I think - those had a reputation for breaking. These D40+ balls are actually the most resilient I've seen. We've not managed to break one, even. Whereas the old celluloid balls would develop cracks regularly. What happens with these balls is that they start feeling slightly less hard - there's one player in our group who insists on bringing out a new ball every three to four weeks or so because he feels the old ball is "over the hill". The seamless balls had a reputation for being nigh on indestructible, too, but we haven't used that many of them. Never had one of those break, either.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 27 May 2019, 03:36 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Weird fella, this Igor. You wonder if he's actually used many of these balls if he says they break easily. He's confusing them with the older cellulose acetate balls, I think - those had a reputation for breaking. These D40+ balls are actually the most resilient I've seen. We've not managed to break one, even. Whereas the old celluloid balls would develop cracks regularly. What happens with these balls is that they start feeling slightly less hard - there's one player in our group who insists on bringing out a new ball every three to four weeks or so because he feels the old ball is "over the hill". The seamless balls had a reputation for being nigh on indestructible, too, but we haven't used that many of them. Never had one of those break, either.

Iskandar


I think Igor lives in Delphi and likes to visit caves there.

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