OOAK Table Tennis Forum

EDIT: this used to be a blog about the transitioning from being a LP defender to being a SP defender. Because the blog owner decided after some experimenting to go full LP defense, the blog will be dedicated to the experience of being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT rating and the verbal and non-verbal abuse and contempt accompanying being a defender and/or LP user. Therefore the title has changed from "Leaving the Dark Side for a Shade of Grey..." to "Living the Dark Side in a Hostile World".

Of course this doesn't mean this transition isn't worth examining (a lot) more. That's why I created a different topic about the matter. You can find it here:

https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=36800

Yes, you read that right and no, I'm not talking about the new rubber colours that'll be emerging soon. I'm talking about changing - as a defender - from long pips to short pips, this after using LPs for more than ten years - twelve years to be exact - and reaching a level of C6 in my own country (I think this is +- 2000 - 2100 USATT rating).

Before I start why I want to change to SPs, I want to tell something about my personal situation. I've experienced some drastic changes in my life, leading me to feeling a drastic change in who I am and who I want to become. This is the second time this occurs to me in life, resulting in a new way of being. In short: re-inventing oneself.

Whole this episode started December 2018 in a period I've lost a woman I dearly loved. I had to make the decision myself to end the "relationship" if you can call it that. I did. This started a real bad episode in life and in table tennis. My emotional life was a mess and this affected my table tennis. A couple of months later I had to decide to stay in a job I loved, but it wasn't personally and socially fulfilling anymore. I quit. However, I still had one more stable, energy-giving place: my table tennis club. That was until two months ago, at the point in time in which I was sidelined (twice!) in becoming a board member. And, oh yes, I also discovered I'm probably highly gifted in intelligence (top 2,5% of the population). So my current situation is: I'm still mourning about all the losses, while having only a dear mother and good friend as a support system and having several unfulfilled desires: the need for an equal, my ambition in personal life and my personal and club ambitions in TT. In this situation it's easy to complain and be depressed, but I try to see it as an opportunity to change. For me it feels like a breeding place for change. The gods - or God or Nature or how you want to call it - throw these situations at you to make you aware of a flaw you have. You have a choice then: either you fix the flaw or you let it lead your life.

So, one of those changes will occur in my style of playing TT. I always loved to play with LPs, but that joy took a great hit when the plastic ball was introduced, less spin being the main culprit. P1-R wasn't that enormous spin monster anymore with enough variety in both the short and long game.

My opponents also take a huge role in wanting to change to SPs: they just attack less - some even don't attack anymore - and use all kind of tactics against me, no spin idiocy being the primary and most frustrating one. Since the start of the whole episode described above I just can't enjoy those kind of games anymore and I lose them due to a lack of patience and consistency, these being caused by the lack of enjoyment. I didn't start playing table tennis to be dinking at the table the level I'm currently at. I want to force them into an attack vs. defense game. I don't care if I lose those or not: at least I enjoy the game then.

So twiddling was the first option I considered: punishing them by attacking them relentlessly with my BH for being passive. But twiddling isn't enough because I also want to be able to push with variation, including a spinny push, in all game situations, even the most time pressured ones. I tried to do this with LPs, but the spin on the ball just isn't enough to ward off a strong attack. I'm a lef-handed defender, so my initial push from my BH goes to a righthander's FH. I always was able to keep the ball low, but the ball was just plain too easy - too spinless - to force a loop that can be defended with quality against a good looper. Spin, backspin that is, gives protection: it forces the attacker to use a more upward movement, making his initial loop less speedy.

All three reason given above have one thing in common: I want to sit more at the wheel during a rally. I want to stand up more for myself during a rally. And let that be the reason why I lost everything in the last couple of months: although eventually I stood up for myself, it just happened too late.

So one of the important changes in my life will be in TT and more precise going from LPs to SPs. I understand that's a drastic change that'll take a lot of time. But I want to do it: I'm motivated to do it. I arranged not having to perform in important games anymore until the end of the year, enabling me to focus on training alone. The couple of games I'm still playing until then are a good indication of the progress I'll be making.

The purpose of the blog will be about me transitioning from a LP defensive game to a SP defensive game and all pains that'll be accompany that change. All feedback is more than welcome. I'll try to update this blog once a week.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

So this Thursday my adventure started. For the time being I'm only experimenting with two SPs, both black and in 1,5mm: Friendship 802 and TSP Spectol. I toyed with both SPs in the past for a very brief period of time - the reason being also longing for more influence during the rally - and I had the greatest connection with the 802. So it was all 802 this Thursday.

First of all: the feeling is totally different and a lot closer to inverted than to LPs. Especially the dampening in all shots is lost, while the control in all game situations due to the extra grip is higher. I had the feeling that I could execute all strokes with enough quality, but my two opponents were very low, however: E6 (S.) and E4 (G.). S. was the first one I started playing against. She's also the good friend in my support system and she was there when the madness and sadness of love took me over. She tries to play a clean game with topspin, but makes a lot of errors while doing that. She had more trouble with my game than when I was playing LPs, dumping a lot balls in the net or hitting them over the table.

G. was a different matter. She doesn't do much: I hate that. She almost never attacks and just gives the ball back with very little or no spin. Not an easy game to play against. Pushing against her was great, control-wise and creating my own spin, but she didn't make any errors due to these psh balls. That was a whole different matter when I was using LPs. Attacking from my BH side was problematic. Although I'm able to hit topspin and backspin balls, I'm still struggling with those no spin balls, especially when they are low. We played a game and because I wasn't able to attack consistently, I lost 3-0. Yeah, it's already apparent the learning process is taking place, even during the first session with SPs, and it can sting quite a bit.

So all in all I'm quite content with my first session. From first impressions I was able to execute all strokes with good consistency and with quality spin. However, I'm struggling with the attacking part of the game against no spin and I wasn't able to chop against a quality loop. I also found returning a serve wasn't that hard to do, when your read the spin correctly, but my LP habits are still in place there. I'm not used there to create my own spin in that department, dependig on placement alone to inhibit a quality attack.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Good luck Lorre.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

Thanx, MNNB!

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Thanks for this interesting blog, and good of you to be opend about life's different turns and how it can reflect on our hobbies (as TT is to most of us).

You might recall I made exactly this change som 5 years ago, just because the lack of spin. I started with 802 and ended up with Spectol but then changed to MP millitall before making a complete change of style to frictilnless anti and playing close to the table.

A few suggestions: Consider changing blade. I used VKM and FII when I changed and I only changed BH rubber. 802 on a soft blade is not good. After a few montgs I changes back to JSH blade and the Spectol matched that blade very nice!

There are many other new and modern SP out on the market to consider. And there are some made for chopping, like Spinpips chop.That top sheet is very interesting with very little grip on the top and mucj grip on the sides. But the supersoft and soft sponge, I am not sure about... With that you can easily vary the spin with different angles, like Hou did so good when he bacame Chinese champ a few months ago.

Look at Ding Songs video (here somewhere) from a few years back, very good stuff in there.

Give yourself time before you start judging and evaluating. This change takes time and you may need changes in strategy and the overall game pattern as well. You may need to change how you use your FH.

Explore pushing game with SP. I see a few players around me who wins a lot points just pushing with SP and making different spins, keeping the opponent on his toes, and waiting for a pop up to smash with BH or FH.

Gry chopping with a shorter stroke and also with sidespin, this helps in keeping the ball on the table.

Have fun!!!

And good luck, really looking forward to see how it goes .

Skickat från min Mi A2 Lite via Tapatalk

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Thanks DA for the support and feedback. I'm keeping the variables as low as possible at the moment, so the only thing changed is the BH rubber - the Joo blade and FH rubber being the same. Interesting to read the Spectol matches the Joo quite nicely: I will try that SP rubber in the next couple of weeks. I suppose, the Joo blade being a hard blade and the 802 not matching a soft blade, that the 802 also matches the Joo blade?

I know there are some new interesting pips out there like SSPC I and II, Degu I and II and Waran I. I'm not considering these until I find some groove in the basic pips I'm considering at the moment (802 and Spectol).

I find the pushing part of SPs very interesting. I'm able to push with backspin and no spin very consistently already. I think I'm even able to push back with a bit of top just touching the pips. S. had a lot of trouble with my pushes, G. didn't (but she never does unless it's reversal from my LPs that go high in the sky ).

I already chop with sidespin naturally and using the wrist to impart siginificant backspin or not. I don't know if my stroke is short or long. I guess it depends on the incoming ball (more spin = longer stroke) of which I guess it's a good thing?

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Yes, keep the number of parameters low. That is also cheaper .
I never tried 802 on Joo... But I see no reason it should not work.
One more thing, 802 comes in different sponges (soft white and orange hard). That can be a thing to consider.
802 and Spectol are very different, kind of as far away from each other as possible for SP. So if you decide which one of those you like tve best you can take it from there or stay with one of them. There are faster and grippier or with much less grip but for me, Spectol is good at everything, very allround, but still some pimple effect.

Skickat från min Mi A2 Lite via Tapatalk

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Thanks for the info. I'm using the 802 with the orange sponge (the tack-speed version). Is the one with the soft white sponge the Mystery version? And which one is better?

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Not sure if anyone is better than the other (Mystery might be a third sponge, I was thinking about white HRS sponge but that may be same as Mystery). Read Leatherbacks blog from China, there are good stuff about SP chopping and also different sponges if I remember correctly.

Skickat från min Mi A2 Lite via Tapatalk

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Great post and thanks for sharing Lorre. Like you and many on this forum (me included) with our passion and love for table tennis, we also see and treat this great sport as an escape route, a therapy and to a great extent a panacea too for all life's personal challenges outside the forum. Good luck and best wishes with your change and hope it perks you and your game up in every respect you are aiming for it to be. Very Best Wishes.

What differences do you feel there are between Spectol and 802? Which one is more grippy?

_________________
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita Offensive FL
FH: Yasaka Mark V GPS Max
BH: TSP SuperSpinPips Chop 2 1.9

Rating: Recreational Player

Thanks, TTbuddy! The kind words are greatly appreciated.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

You'll have to ask DA or someone else. I'm currently still experimenting solely with the 802.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

Not to derail your journey or anything.. but have you ever tried grippy LPs? If I recall correctly you used to be a P1R player. Spin at the table is the reason I switched to the rubber I use currently. It's not forgiving on receive, no wobble, and when I push, to my opponent it actually feels like a normal push more or less.. Not a SP expert here or anything like that, but I read in many reviews that FL3, P4 etc behave and play like a SP. Just a thought.

_________________
Attackers: "All pips players are cheaters who can't loop, move, or read spin"
Me: I beg your pardon?

Spectol is softer and pips are a little wider and more conical. 802 has small, hard and grippy pips, more grippy than Spectol. If you push with 802 over the table you can generate a lot of spin. If you only uses the top of the pips with a light touch they are less grippy but I guess still more grippy than Spectol. I would say they differ as much as H3 and T05, two very different rubbers. Not better or worse, just very different.

Skickat från min Mi A2 Lite via Tapatalk

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube