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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2020, 04:19 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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Blade: Nittaku Shake Defense
FH: Nittaku Fastarc C-1 1.8mm
BH: Hellfire X OX
Matt Pimple wrote:
@TraditionalTradesman: If you want to block a ball into your forehand side with the anti you need to step over with your body as well and support your backhand with your body. When blocking with frictionless anti it is very important to support your block with your body. You can practice this and it's easy to do on slower loops but on real fast loops it's obviously very difficult and p[robably better to block with forehand side.


Thanks. That's good to know, and I'll try it ... but on slower loops to the forehand, my chicken-wing blocks also work. The problem is fast loops. Sure, I can use my forehand to block, but if I have to do that routinely, I assume opponents will start teeing off at my forehand side. For the close-to-the-table push-blocking style to work for me, I have to be able to block those balls to my forehand, and with pips, I can usually do it pretty effectively. The far greater spin reversal offered by the Vortex won't be worth it if the trade-off is a huge vulnerability to fast loops on that side.

hardbatpower wrote:
You can try to keep the bat handle horizontal (I e. Not tip down). This is closer to how Amir does it. He will occasionally end up with tip down if it's to the extreme FH side.

May have to modify your grip a little to me more BH centric. Also it matters which way your feet are pointing.


My grip is always more BH-centric (I use 90% backhand when I play, with lots of twiddling both to push and to attack from the backhand side), but I'm curious what you mean about "which way your feet are pointing." (I'm usually in a more backhand stance, which I've been trying to modify to be a bit more neutral so that I can be faster when I actually want/need to loop/block/smash with my forehand.) I will watch some of Amir's videos again to see what you mean, though (I think I recall what he does, and it corresponds with what you're saying, but I want to see it again).

Anyway, as I said, unfortunately, I probably won't get to practice again for another week-and-a-half or so.

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I. Re-Impact Tachi Plus 2019; FH: Nittaku FastArc G-1 1.4mm; BH: Saviga 77 Monster OX
II. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
III. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 06:20 
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Blade: Stiga 2000 ALL '76
FH: DHS H3N
BH: DrN ABS2 2.3
I was able to test the Vortex with the 1.2mm red sponge yesterday night in comparison to Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.3mm which I normally play since it came on the market; both were played on a old Stiga ALL blades with similar speed. First of all the Vortex was no revelation or magic to me. It is slower than the ABS2 2.3mm and I would say reversal was about the same. I initially had some problems to get balls over the net and you have to actually bump a little bit against the ball on slow shots to get it to go over the net but that is just a matter of adjustment. It is easier to block balls short with the Vortex but they don't have more reversal. I generally found the control and bat angle dependency on all shots similar to ABS2. Attacking underspin with the Vortex was easy, similar to ABS2, but the balls were slower and therefore less effective. At some point we were doing some drills as I wanted to compare the two antis side-by-side. My partner would loop 2-3 times into my anti to block and then push which I would attack and so forth. I would often switch back and forth between the two paddles. After a while my buddy told me that he didn't see any difference in the spin he got back and he did rip a few when the block was too high. He told me that the ABS2 bothered him because the ball came faster at him and he had less time to react to it whereas the Vortex was slow and he could adjust to it. I did not see him make any easy mistake on the Vortex which would indicate a superior reversal. Overall, the Vortex is an interesting rubber that certainly has good potential but it was not a revelation to me. It was interesting enough though that I'd like to test it a little bit more for example against other opponents and in more matches before coming to a final conclusion. I'm not sure the slower speed of the Vortex works for me but I'm actually wondering how the topsheet would perform on an ABS2 sponge. I also read in the German Noppentest forum that the green sponge is faster and makes it more disruptive with better reversal.
We practiced with Nittaku J-Top ABS balls.

P.S.: I'm around 1900 USATT and my buddy >2000

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 06:25 
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Blade: DMS Revolution
FH: RITC 802-1 OX
BH: Spinlab Vortex 0.5mm
Cool, thanks for the update!


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 01 Feb 2020, 08:31 
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Iron Pips
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FH: DHS H3-50
BH: Barna SuperGlanti 1.6
Matt Pimple wrote:
I was able to test the Vortex with the 1.2mm red sponge yesterday night in comparison to Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.3mm which I normally play since it came on the market; both were played on a old Stiga ALL blades with similar speed. First of all the Vortex was no revelation or magic to me. It is slower than the ABS2 2.3mm and I would say reversal was about the same. I initially had some problems to get balls over the net and you have to actually bump a little bit against the ball on slow shots to get it to go over the net but that is just a matter of adjustment. It is easier to block balls short with the Vortex but they don't have more reversal. I generally found the control and bat angle dependency on all shots similar to ABS2. Attacking underspin with the Vortex was easy, similar to ABS2, but the balls were slower and therefore less effective. At some point we were doing some drills as I wanted to compare the two antis side-by-side. My partner would loop 2-3 times into my anti to block and then push which I would attack and so forth. I would often switch back and forth between the two paddles. After a while my buddy told me that he didn't see any difference in the spin he got back and he did rip a few when the block was too high. He told me that the ABS2 bothered him because the ball came faster at him and he had less time to react to it whereas the Vortex was slow and he could adjust to it. I did not see him make any easy mistake on the Vortex which would indicate a superior reversal. Overall, the Vortex is an interesting rubber that certainly has good potential but it was not a revelation to me. It was interesting enough though that I'd like to test it a little bit more for example against other opponents and in more matches before coming to a final conclusion. I'm not sure the slower speed of the Vortex works for me but I'm actually wondering how the topsheet would perform on an ABS2 sponge. I also read in the German Noppentest forum that the green sponge is faster and makes it more disruptive with better reversal.
We practiced with Nittaku J-Top ABS balls.

P.S.: I'm around 1900 USATT and my buddy >2000
This is in line with my findings too. Perhaps you should try it on a faster blade?

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2020, 01:45 
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Blade: JS Custom
FH: Vo>102 2.0mm
BH: Super Glanti 1.6mm
Hi there !
So I had my first session with Vortex 1.2mm red sponge yesterday and all I can say is that he does everything a little bit better than the scandal (0.9mm) in general:

- Lower throw angle
- at least same spin reversal
- shorter block (obvious because it's also slower than the scandal)
- more accuracy (perhaps because the pimple of the scandal are very long with a lot of space between so it reduces the accuracy compared of the short pimple of the vortex)
- less weird floating ball than the Scandal :( (long pimple of the scandal help to create weird floating ball I believe)

Oh, and the vortex was mounted on an OSP Immune Pushblocker Carbon (bh with mahogany outter ply, so it's a hard blade with very low throw). Carbon on the fh side also contributes to the hardness and stiffness of the blade (asymmetric blade)

Only concern is that I failed to glue it correctly. I glued it with a sheet (DMS DK4) + one layer of Revolution n°3 on the blade because I don't want to put layer of glue on the vortex (to keep the sponge safe and not modify its characteristics) but it appears that the sheet doesn't perform well with the Vortex. The vortex doesn't want to "absorb the sheet" and it remains lightly attached to the sheet...
Any idea to glue it better (without putting glue on the sponge)? Guys, how did you mounted the Vortex on your blade ?

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Setup 2: Xiom Icecream AZX; FH: Andro Rasanter R47 2.0mm ; BH: Der Materialspezialist Strörkraft 1.2mm
Setup 3: OSP Immune OX Pushblocker; FH: Victas Vo>102 1.8mm; BH: Barna Original Super Glanti 0.8mm


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2020, 01:52 
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Blade: DMS Revolution
FH: RITC 802-1 OX
BH: Spinlab Vortex 0.5mm
Donic glue sheet worked well.

The pricier fancier glue sheets have issues in my experience. Either not sticky enough or too thin so they tear easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2020, 05:43 
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The denotion of "S" and "M" for pimpled rubbers are just an arbitrary naming that rubber manufacturers would never use.

According to ITTF LARC all pimpled rubbers are divided into two categories OUT and LONG. There is nor SHORT nor MEDEIUM category. Likewise, you never know if the pimples belonging to the Mediun/Short Family because the factory package never inform you what size are the pimples enclosed.
Medium and Short pimples is just a сonventional categorization as now adopted with common players. Actually, nobody can tell you the explicit borderline between S and M categories.

/Be happy/.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2020, 05:57 
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Blade: Stiga 2000 ALL '76
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BH: DrN ABS2 2.3
Rinforzando wrote:
Guys, how did you mounted the Vortex on your blade ?

for my test I used rubber cement (Elmer's brand) without any glue sheet. I just let it air out for a couple of days before playing with it. To remove it I will use a little bit of acetone to dissolve the glue. I never had any problems that way.

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Stiga 2000 All '76, FH: DHS H3 Neo 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.3


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2020, 09:31 
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Blade: DMS Revolution
FH: RITC 802-1 OX
BH: Spinlab Vortex 0.5mm
Acetone is good stuff. Makes the job a lot easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2020, 12:18 
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hardbatpower wrote:
Acetone is good stuff. Makes the job a lot easier.

If the rubber is a little delicate like a lot of frictionless antis I apply a little bit of acetone with a syringe and then carefully lift the rubber with a plastic spatula or an old credit card.

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Stiga 2000 All '76, FH: DHS H3 Neo 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.3


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2020, 07:57 
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Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
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You gunna rock that rubber at 2020 Meiklejohn Seniors tourney?

William.

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2020, 13:37 
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Der_Echte wrote:
You gunna rock that rubber at 2020 Meiklejohn Seniors tourney?

William.

When and where is that dude?

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Stiga 2000 All '76, FH: DHS H3 Neo 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.3


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2020, 06:20 
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Blade: Stiga 2000 ALL '76
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BH: DrN ABS2 2.3
Yesterday I tried to remove my 1.2mm Vortex and move it to a different blade I just got. I totally destroyed the sponge! This is the most delicate sponge I have ever seen and I suspect without a glue sheet it might be impossible to move it to a different blade. Since the top sheet survived (and looks pretty durable) I decided to glue onto a Dr. Neubauer ABS 2.5mm sponge.

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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 10:04 
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Blade: DMS Revolution
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BH: Spinlab Vortex 0.5mm
The 2.3mm sponge and the 1.2mm sponge were both too damn slow.

Being very careful I was able to remove the topsheet from the sponge, but it's difficult especially with the 1.2mm sponge.

I put it on some 0.5mm sponge and will report back how it goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Spinlab Vortex
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2020, 04:19 
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BH: DrN ABS2 2.3
I tested the Vortex on ABS 2.5mm sponge yesterday and I did not really like it. The feel was somehow weird, very muted and indirect. It was also still quite a bit slower than the ABS2 2.3 and if memory serves correctly than the ABS2 2.5 which means that Vortex topsheet is slower than the ABS2 topsheet. I wasn't really impressed by the reversal either and I often dumped balls into the net. Maybe I'm just too used to ABS2 2.3 but it seems that the Vortex isn't really working for me. By the way, the surface of my Vortex somehow feels kind of rough unlike the ABS2 surface. Did others feel the same thing?

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