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PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 00:03 
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Kim Is My Shadow
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I've been thinking about this for years. Time to take action. Excuse the production values of holding my phone and talking in to the mic, those who've seen the videos I've made in the past know I take my production values on this topic very seriously. This was purlely about getting off my backside and taking action, making a commitment and getting my big hairy audacious goal out there. If there's no demand, or it adds no value to the table tennis community, there is is no point me pursuing it further. Please have your say. And no I wasn't drunk at the time, just very passionate about this subject...



I've made some follow up videos in this playlist below which give a little more detail on the types of tests I'm looking at doing. I have ideas on how to conduct all the tests and have invested in some of the equipment I need. I'll also be reaching out to other successful businesses in the field of custom fitting and sports analysis and asking for their help and input.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 5uSiB2eSCL

In the meantime, I've moved some of my equipment testing videos on to this channel link to PathfinderPro Channel which is dedicated to table tennis equipment and maybe some coaching videos if I can get Jim Clegg to help out and I've renamed my original channel "Preston Table Tennis". There I'll post matches played or involving players in the Preston league - I'll soon be adding a video of Donald Parker playing for the North of England vs PR Korea from 1986. People will know Donald for his commentary work for the ITTF but for quite a few years he played in Preston and was coached by Jim Clegg before becoming the youngest then player to play for England and going on to manage the England national team. So I'll still be active on both channels.


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PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 12:20 
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I think the idea is great, but the hard bit is making it popular enough so that people use.

I think it will be very hard to get the support from manufacturers, as it provides players a means of assessing equipment while by-passing their marketing, which is not in their interest.

To make it popular, you'll need access to large number of popular rubbers & blades, and this is likely to become too expensive for you to purchase yourself. It may be possible to get some retailers to support you by means of free samples, but you'd need to provide something beneficial to them. It also opens you up to perceived bias.

A better way of funding this venture would be to somehow get the TT community to offer some financial support, either by poviding a service to them, or via donations.

The only other option of funding might be that you can somehow get the ITTF involved in this, but providing some tests and data that is useful to them. This probably won't be the focus of your venture, but if some by-products of your tests can provide useful information to them, there may be some interest.

I would guess the first step for you is to do some testing of well known equipment, to see if your scientific findings provide useful information that agrees with the findings of players. You can then use these as a baseline to add other products, and hopefully gain support as you go.

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PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 15:09 
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Truth to say, CONTRA, a German's expert team, did the whole job for you.

/Be happy/


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PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 15:35 
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Kim Is My Shadow
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haggisv wrote:
I think the idea is great, but the hard bit is making it popular enough so that people use.

I think it will be very hard to get the support from manufacturers, as it provides players a means of assessing equipment while by-passing their marketing, which is not in their interest.

To make it popular, you'll need access to large number of popular rubbers & blades, and this is likely to become too expensive for you to purchase yourself. It may be possible to get some retailers to support you by means of free samples, but you'd need to provide something beneficial to them. It also opens you up to perceived bias.

A better way of funding this venture would be to somehow get the TT community to offer some financial support, either by poviding a service to them, or via donations..


Thank you for your feedback haggisv, valued as always :)

From a view point of funding I envisage 3 levels. Advertising revene would be the first via my website I'm setting up and youtube monetisation. There would be no cost to the table tennis community for this other than having adverts present but the content would be restricted ie not all tests or test results shared. I could set up a landing page on my website asking for donations but I won't do that until I have some new content out there which is coming. The second stage of funding could come from "membership" to the website or via an app which contains all the test results and will be added to as more tests are done. The third stage and my ultimate aim is to "custom fit players" If I can test and collect information about speed and spin rates based on contact with the ball at various controlled angles and speeds and then compare that to the biomechanical movement of a player, you can marry technique to equipment. For example, if your primary shot is a counter hit/drive and your arm movement is 30mph and bat at contact is 30 degrees, and I've tested rubbers at that angle and speed of contact and you want something which is faster, a quick check against the results held for those parameters would show which rubber gives most speed at those perameters. I'm currently trying to source a robotic arm - either pneumatic powered or electronic - which I can attach rubber to and vary the speed and angle of to make contact with a ball. I'm also contacting ball manufacturers to ask if they could supply me with a sheet of the abs material they use to make their balls so I can use it to conduct friction tests on rubber.

If you are wondering what bat would be used, I've covered that in one of the videos I've made explaining the type of tests for rubber.

Yes it will cost me a lot initially. Time is the biggest investment it would require. So far though I've invested in TenniRobo from Sergey - he has his own thread on this forum about his robot. I've spoken a lot with Sergey over the past 4 years and we are friends on Facebook. He's built in a system for me to check the calibration of the speed of feed in to his table tennis robot and with TenniRobo I'll be able to fire the balls downward and control speed and spin independently which is absolutely crucial for my testing. I've bought a variety of testing equipment and will invest in more if the interest is there - you can see some of it one of the videos I've made. I'm also going to be reaching out to specialists in the area of spin and speed measure to ask for their experiences of testing for spin and speed and see if I can apply some of that to my tests.

At the start, this will have to be a home testing as I don't have access to laboratory conditions or equipment. Obviously I'll have to be very careful to try and duplicate the testing parameters each time I test so they will probably be redone in laboratory conditions in the future for greater accuracy, but it's also important to get these tests started as a proof of concept / basic guide to help players make better choices.


haggisv wrote:
I would guess the first step for you is to do some testing of well known equipment, to see if your scientific findings provide useful information that agrees with the findings of players. You can then use these as a baseline to add other products, and hopefully gain support as you go.


I agree 100% and that's why I've made a series of videos to ask the table tennis community what type of tests they would like to see done. There is no point me providing something that doesn't add value to our table tennis experiences. For example, I've invested in sheets of Butterfly Tenergy 05, 25, 64 and 80 for a direct comparison across these rubbers. These will also provide the baseline by which other rubbers can be compared.



And I've invested in two custom made combination bats which are made the same with the same woods except one has a balsa core one doesn't.



It won't be easy. However, if it adds value then there will be a way and right now I'm trying to focus on what to test for. When that's established, the "how" will follow. If I do it the other way round, I'll never start.

Once again thanks for the great feedback haggisv :up:


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PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 15:37 
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igorponger wrote:
Truth to say, CONTRA, a German's expert team, did the whole job for you.

/Be happy/


Ultimately I want to test at various parameters without human interaction first and then when that's known marry those results to an individuals actual biomechanical movement.


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PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 20:19 
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I love the idea, but Alex does raise some good points. I think it will be challenging—that doesn't mean it won't be worthwhile though!

I especially think it would be valuable to have a measure by which we could hold manufacturer's a little more accountable to their marketing claims regarding new rubbers...

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PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 22:24 
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ill check this out later mate.Are those sennheiser px100 headphones.Very good phones and in demand now.I collect them .


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PostPosted: 30 May 2020, 00:06 
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Kim Is My Shadow
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peterpong wrote:
ill check this out later mate.Are those sennheiser px100 headphones.Very good phones and in demand now.I collect them .

Very observant peterpong! They are indeed px100's. I have had them many many years and they are my favourite over-ear headphones, better for me than my Momentum 1's. The only things I've replaced are the foam earpads, otherwise no problems whatsoever.


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