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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 06:34 
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Blade: Stiga Allround Classic
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My present game is close-to-the table blocking, driving, and flat hitting with short pips on both wings.I am considering making a transition to double inverted for the same playing style. I think (and I know you can't always believe what you think) that I would like a non tacky/mechanical grip inverted with reduced spin capability and relatively hard sponge. In other words, something that produces just a little more spin than typical short pips with a high degree of control. Of course,money is an object, so I would prefer something inexpensive if possible. I will probably start out with my present Stiga Allround Classic or my SanweiM8 and go from there. What rubbers would you suggest?


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 16:17 
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I really can't think of any inverted rubber that doesn't produce that much spin or react to spin. (Other than anti sheets, of course, but those don't count.) You'll see people comparing different rubbers, saying that this one produces more spin (and/or reacts less to spin) than that one, but of all of those I've tried, the differences are pretty small, that is until they get really old and grotty. (Maybe old, grotty sheets might be the answer.. :lol: ) The difference between inverted and pips out is, in comparison, large. One possibility would be thinner sponge (1.5mm or so) - that would have less spin, at least when it comes to topspin drives. It would also tend to be less bouncy, I think, and give better blocking control. As for hard vs. soft sponge - plenty of hard sponge out there, mainly Chinese sheets. Why do you want to switch from pips out? Is there some aspect of the game that you don't like and want to see if inverted works better?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 17:22 
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I am not an expert in both SP nor Chinese FH, but it was the easiest transition for me. Classical Chinese rubbers are slower at flat hitting. It creates a possibility to master inverted loop without immediate loose of direct hit/drive technique.

BH is another case.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 17:53 
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iskandar taib wrote:
One possibility would be thinner sponge (1.5mm or so) -
Iskandar


+1 ... My first thought, as soon as I read the post..

Another option (A long shot) - An old inverted rubber that's turned a bit slick .... ??


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 20:04 
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Simply, Butterfly Sriver L


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2021, 03:11 
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I don't recall Sriver being any less spinny than other inverted sheets. Certainly nothing close to pips-out. Remember this was the go-to rubber for pretty much everyone back in the 1970s, together with Mark V, it is capable of producing a lot of spin.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2021, 09:31 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I don't recall Sriver being any less spinny than other inverted sheets. Certainly nothing close to pips-out. Remember this was the go-to rubber for pretty much everyone back in the 1970s, together with Mark V, it is capable of producing a lot of spin.

Iskandar


I'm a player from 70s, 38 mm. era.
Today, I find the surface and the ''speed'' of Sriver could be helpful to start with an inverted after using pips-out.
No need to say, now, it is 40+ plastic...ball is heavier and less ''spinny''. This makes Sriver being something else.
Sriver is not so spin sensitive. It is ''fast'' enough.
I find Sriver can be helpful for transition.


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2021, 15:55 
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I don't think it'd be less spinny than say, 729 (especially after the tack wears off a little). Probably a little faster, if anything. Compared to Rakza 7, or Tenergy 05? Probably less spin, but not really all that much. Compared to any short pips? A lot more. I'm thinking if the initial poster wants something spinnier than regular short pips, there are spinnier short pips available.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2021, 18:08 
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If we keep on projecting the players' skills and technical abilities as the speciality or the ability of the rubber, that's why I use '' '' when I mention this or that rubber as spinny or fast, then yes; Sriver is less ''spinny'' and less spin sensitive than 729. Yes, less ''spinny'' with 38 mm. and yes, less ''spinny'' with 40+ plastic.
It depends on the player, of course he can use a more spinny pips-out.
And this topic is about transition from short pips to inverted. ''Initial poster'' is considering double inverted.
And this means more spin and ability to handle more spin; time and training is needed for new harmonization.
A Rakza or Tenergy after a short pip seems a too much big step.


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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 01:41 
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For blocking and hitting through topspins, the Victas 401 is really good. I tested it in 1.5, and you can block everything and simply smash through the higher arcing topspins. The rubber is also dynamic enough to spin with it, but of course not so well as with specialized topspin rubbers.
Nittaku Goriki Kaisoku might be another option, Nittaku specifically says that it is designed to be close to short pips, but I have never tried it.

For cheaper alternatives, Chinese rubbers also work quite well for blocking, but for smashing they are not so good. This shmashing through topspins that I was able to do with 401, I was never able to do with chinese rubbers.


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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 03:23 
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Iguana wrote:
For blocking and hitting through topspins, the Victas 401 is really good. I tested it in 1.5, and you can block everything and simply smash through the higher arcing topspins. The rubber is also dynamic enough to spin with it, but of course not so well as with specialized topspin rubbers.
Nittaku Goriki Kaisoku might be another option, Nittaku specifically says that it is designed to be close to short pips, but I have never tried it.

For cheaper alternatives, Chinese rubbers also work quite well for blocking, but for smashing they are not so good. This shmashing through topspins that I was able to do with 401, I was never able to do with chinese rubbers.


All of these rubbers has more spin sensitive surface than Sriver, that's why I'd start with a Sriver for a transition from short pips. Easier to play with, sooo good for smashes.
I'd pick Victas 401 1.5 otherwise. It is very good for hitting if you hit hard but it is more spin sensitive than a Sriver.
On an allround wood, I'd go with 1.9 or 2.1 mm. Sriver L.
With tacky chinese rubbers not to be able to smashing through topspins is a classic. Even the highest level chinese players instead of hitting with their forehand chinese rubbers, they twiddle and hit with their relatively less spin sensitive Tenergies.


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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2021, 03:45 
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They twiddle to kill lobs only, not to hit back topspin balls. I can't imagine trying to twiddle in a topspin drive exchange - just plain not enough time. They're perfectly capable of killing topspin balls with their H3 - it's what they use it for most of the time, anyhow.

What I'm saying is, is that what rubber you use matters a lot less than a lot of people seem to think. Differences exist, but they're pretty minor. Sriver will work, so will Mark V, so will, say, AK47 or Focus III Snipe. Thin sponge is what I'd look at rather than any specific brand, the problem is it's not universally available (AK47, for instance, isn't offered with thin sponge).

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2021, 05:09 
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steveh wrote:
My present game is close-to-the table blocking, driving, and flat hitting with short pips on both wings.I am considering making a transition to double inverted for the same playing style. I think (and I know you can't always believe what you think) that I would like a non tacky/mechanical grip inverted with reduced spin capability and relatively hard sponge. In other words, something that produces just a little more spin than typical short pips with a high degree of control. Of course,money is an object, so I would prefer something inexpensive if possible. I will probably start out with my present Stiga Allround Classic or my SanweiM8 and go from there. What rubbers would you suggest?


So did you ever find what you were looking for?

If not contact Tom at ZeroPong and see if he might have something interesting to use. He would be familiar with the 802 you are using, and might be in a good position to recommend something from his current Gambler line to help with your transition. Bonus is he's located in South Carolina, so close by (relatively speaking). He has a few options, like Zero, Diamond or Mech-Tek that might work.

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