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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 06:09 
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adham wrote:
...But I have been told that the majority of veterans were in favour of the low-friction rule, because it reduced a minority of players that they considered to be so called "material players" as they call it in Germany. First time I heard this expression I thought they were talking about gamblers (material in the sense of money).


They also call inverted rubber "normal" in Germany. Just "normal". :)


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 06:44 
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[quote="adham"][quote="igorponger"]Adham,

Let`s return to this very "peculiar" adhesive..
To my best Knowledge it is not a standard product. It does not meet the T4 Technical Regulations for its over thick layer of non-standard material.
Hence, this product is ILLEGAL to use at official matches, is it ??

In this too, I`d like very much the T4 Leaflet to impose a special requirement for the PSA products to be marked with a producer LOGO`s all over surface.
This is to make much easier for the umpire to check legality of the PSA sheets.

Igor NOVICK
national umpire[/quote]

I really do not know this product at all.
If it is an adhesive, then it should be OK. As I said, if its principal function is as an adhesive, then it is OK. Which part of T-4 forbids it?
I do agree, that some thickness specification should be made to avoid additives, but for the time being why would you think it's illegal?
Please direct us to that section of the rules or T-4 that makes it illegal. So far, I have not heard of it being illegal, but maybe you are right.[/quote]

-----------------------
Dear Adham,

The T4 does set a number of strict limitations on the PSA sheets.
http://www.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/pdf/ ... s_2007.pdf

Page 5
Point 1.2.2 <i>"....PSA may not be more than 0.1mm thick and may not be cellular.
It may consist of...a plastic film or a cellulosic paper."</i>

Sometimes player may use a "handy-made" adhesive sheet of non-standard sizes and materials (foamed polyethilene, metallic foil, synthetical fabric, etc) to achieve the "disturbing" effect on his racket.
The Umpire should be able to see in a moment that the PSA sheet inside the racket is a legal (factory-made) product.
That`s why we do insist that all the PSA sheets, ITTF approved, should bear a producer`s LOGO + ITTF LOGO clearly visible all over the sheet`s surface.


Thanks


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 06:58 
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igorponger wrote:
Adham,

Let`s return to this very "peculiar" adhesive..
To my best Knowledge it is not a standard product. It does not meet the T4 Technical Regulations for its over thick layer of non-standard material.
Hence, this product is ILLEGAL to use at official matches, is it ??

In this too, I`d like very much the T4 Leaflet to impose a special requirement for the PSA products to be marked with a producer LOGO`s all over surface.
This is to make much easier for the umpire to check legality of the PSA sheets.

Igor NOVICK
national umpire
Adham wrote:

I really do not know this product at all.
If it is an adhesive, then it should be OK. As I said, if its principal function is as an adhesive, then it is OK. Which part of T-4 forbids it?
I do agree, that some thickness specification should be made to avoid additives, but for the time being why would you think it's illegal?
Please direct us to that section of the rules or T-4 that makes it illegal. So far, I have not heard of it being illegal, but maybe you are right.


******************
Dear Adham,
The T4 does set a number of strict limitations on the PSA sheets.
http://www.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/pdf/ ... s_2007.pdf
Page 5
Point 1.2.2 "....PSA may not be more than 0.1mm thick and may not be cellular.
It may consist of...a plastic film or a cellulosic paper."


Sometimes player may use a "handy-made" adhesive sheet of non-standard sizes and materials (foamed polyethilene, metallic foil, synthetical fabric, etc) to achieve the "disturbing" effect on his racket.
The Umpire should be able to see in a moment that the PSA sheet inside the racket is a legal (factory-made) product.
That`s why we do insist that all the PSA sheets, ITTF approved, should bear a producer`s LOGO + ITTF LOGO clearly visible all over the sheet`s surface.

Thanks


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 08:09 
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Adham,
Sorry to go off topic

Have you always played as a defender??
What equipment do you use? Like rubber and blade?

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 10:21 
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igorponger wrote:
Dear Adham,
The T4 does set a number of strict limitations on the PSA sheets.
http://www.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/pdf/ ... s_2007.pdf
Page 5
Point 1.2.2 "....PSA may not be more than 0.1mm thick and may not be cellular.
It may consist of...a plastic film or a cellulosic paper."


Sometimes player may use a "handy-made" adhesive sheet of non-standard sizes and materials (foamed polyethilene, metallic foil, synthetical fabric, etc) to achieve the "disturbing" effect on his racket.
The Umpire should be able to see in a moment that the PSA sheet inside the racket is a legal (factory-made) product.
That`s why we do insist that all the PSA sheets, ITTF approved, should bear a producer`s LOGO + ITTF LOGO clearly visible all over the sheet`s surface.

Thanks


Very useful information igorponger, I had not seen this. The link does not work for me though...

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 10:40 
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@haggisv

Try this:

http://www.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/pdf/ ... _2007+.pdf


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 10:42 
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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 12:54 
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igorponger wrote:
igorponger wrote:
Adham,

Let`s return to this very "peculiar" adhesive..
To my best Knowledge it is not a standard product. It does not meet the T4 Technical Regulations for its over thick layer of non-standard material.
Hence, this product is ILLEGAL to use at official matches, is it ??

In this too, I`d like very much the T4 Leaflet to impose a special requirement for the PSA products to be marked with a producer LOGO`s all over surface.
This is to make much easier for the umpire to check legality of the PSA sheets.

Igor NOVICK
national umpire
Adham wrote:

I really do not know this product at all.
If it is an adhesive, then it should be OK. As I said, if its principal function is as an adhesive, then it is OK. Which part of T-4 forbids it?
I do agree, that some thickness specification should be made to avoid additives, but for the time being why would you think it's illegal?
Please direct us to that section of the rules or T-4 that makes it illegal. So far, I have not heard of it being illegal, but maybe you are right.


******************
Dear Adham,
The T4 does set a number of strict limitations on the PSA sheets.
http://www.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/pdf/ ... s_2007.pdf
Page 5
Point 1.2.2 "....PSA may not be more than 0.1mm thick and may not be cellular.
It may consist of...a plastic film or a cellulosic paper."


Sometimes player may use a "handy-made" adhesive sheet of non-standard sizes and materials (foamed polyethilene, metallic foil, synthetical fabric, etc) to achieve the "disturbing" effect on his racket.
The Umpire should be able to see in a moment that the PSA sheet inside the racket is a legal (factory-made) product.
That`s why we do insist that all the PSA sheets, ITTF approved, should bear a producer`s LOGO + ITTF LOGO clearly visible all over the sheet`s surface.

Thanks


Yes, the description is to avoid an "added" second sponge, or an additive. Is the PSA sheet in question thicker than allowed? I have never seen it. Does it not meet all the requiremnets?
As for having logos on it how would the umpire see it if it already applied and is in between the racket covering and the blade?
Sorry, I am not very familiar with PSA sheets.

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 12:58 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Thanks Adham. I'm not on any other forum that you visit, so I've not had the chance to read any of this before. It sounds like TT has been your life and is firmly in your blood. Good luck with your new coaching pursuits between yourself and your wife. I'd say you are blessed to have such a thing to share between you, given it is both your interests/passions. And I'd say the kids/people that get to use your new centre will also be extremely fortunate that you have decided to do it. Well done/Bravo!


Thanks. Yes, TT has been a very big part of my life. By the way, my wife was also the National Coach of Canada for about 10 years (juniors and women). We both love the game. But now she plays football (Soccer) to stay fit.

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 13:01 
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speedplay wrote:
The coaching centre sounds like a great idea and I really love that you are going to run it in an environment were people are not economically blessed. Off course, I would love the idea even more if this centre were closer to me, as Canada might be a bit to far to travel to get some decent coaching.

Not sure if ITTF could do anything about this, but the way I see it, coaches are a rare species and I for one would love to have more coaches around.

I've been asked my self to give some coaching to the youngsters around here, and I will probably accept this once I've gained some coaching knowledge, cause currently, my own game/technique is to filled with flaws, to be useful for coaching.

I know, I don't have to be able to play to the level I'm coaching, but I should at least know the right technique before I try to coach others.


I suggest you contact the Swedish Table tennis Association, they give regular coaching courses. You could start with the first level and then when you need to upgrade, you go to the next level, etc. Sweden has a very good coaching system. Try it. It wil probably also improve your own game, because you will learn a lot of new things that you could apply to yourself.

The ITTF delivers coaching courses in Developing countries. We have printed appropriate Manuals for different levels.

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 Post subject: Re: Adham: Thank You!
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 13:06 
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Tommy Zai wrote:
My challenge is sincere as is my respect and friendship with Adham. I am grateful for the upcoming opportunity . . . not just to play, but to spend time with a great guy, who despite all the bashing is still online hashing it all out with us. I cannot imagine having a president so patient and thick-skinned and kind.

GAME: I am honored that Adham has accepted my challenge and I agree to the terms . . . How about soon after June 20, 2009? That will give me a minimum of 6-months to train as you suggested. As of 12/20/08 (yesterday), I have gone into intense training. I will work on my game a minimum of 5-hours a day. For the next three weeks I'll drill with Hookshot. Borko is getting me game ready by building up my mental toughness and a blade that he promises will add at least 2-points to each game (hopefully for me) :-). The Saturday after New Year's we hope to visit Tat's Garage and get some tips from a super pipper. I have an ex-provincial team player working with me on Sundays. AND, my kung fu kicking Chinese girlfriend continues to surprise me night and day with sudden attacks to keep my reflexes sharp.

THANK YOU ADHAM.

ME VERSUS YOU IN A FRIENDLY BUT VICIOUS TRASH TALKING MATCH . . . GUANGZHOU, SUMMER OF 2009?

I WILL BE READY!

LOVE YA BRO!!!!


Woooooooooooo, I'm scared, I'm trembling, you are scaaaaaring me !!!

Seriously, it will be my pleasure to meet you. Please stay in touch on my private e-mail so that we can coordinate the meeting. Let me know the period that you will be there. It would be good if we could coincide it with an event in China where you could attend as my guest representing the Forum.

Adham

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 13:09 
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Smartguy wrote:
adham wrote:
...But I have been told that the majority of veterans were in favour of the low-friction rule, because it reduced a minority of players that they considered to be so called "material players" as they call it in Germany. First time I heard this expression I thought they were talking about gamblers (material in the sense of money).


They also call inverted rubber "normal" in Germany. Just "normal". :)


I guess they don't like pimples in Germany. In fact, according to story that was sent to me in a private post, only in 1959 was "inverted" or the German "normal" rubber actually defined. Very interesting.

By the way, are you an umpire as well?

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 13:16 
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metal monkey wrote:
Adham,
Sorry to go off topic

Have you always played as a defender??
What equipment do you use? Like rubber and blade?


No, I did not always play as a defender. As a Junior I was an attacker. But when I started to coach, most of the players I coached were weak against defense, so I started to train them against defense "chop" by playing defense myself. I loved it. So, I incorporated it in my game. I was a sort of ALL-ROUND player, favouring defense, because I liked it, but usually played mid-distance "rolling" kind of game with spin variation and then speed variation, defending and attacking. If the opponent was weak against chop, then I would chop more and counter-attack a bit for variety and surprise.
My current racket is a simple Butterfly blade (very old blade) but I do not remember the model's name. they probably don't make it anymore. I use Sriver 2mm on each side. My strength is in spin variation using technique. So both sides of the racket are the same, but I vary the spin a lot using wrist, forearm acceleration, point of contact with the ball, etc. But when I coach I can use any racket (pimples, long pimples, Anti, fast blades, etc.)

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 13:27 
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adham wrote:
I have a question for you guys (and gals). In one of the posts one of you reminded me that at the lower levels there should be more freedom to use a variety of equipment to help the lower level player perform better. My understanding is that the "majority" of the lower level players are in favour of the low-friction levels, and that the minority is very angry about it.

I don't know about the majority, but I think there are three camps. The players that use "material." The players who don't care what the opponent uses. And players who complain because they can't beat "junk" players. I personally don't think low friction rubbers should be restricted to lower levels. In golf a player is free use game improvement clubs all the way to the pro tour if he wishes. Of course, the better players find other types of clubs more valuable so it's a moot issue.

It's the same in our sport. Past a certain level, the frictionless equipment is generally not found. However, I don't really see low friction rubbers as a game improvement device to cover a weakness. In fact for lower rated players, these rubbers are no help whatsoever. Frictionless rubbers are a useful weapon in middle ranges 1200-1800. At those levels, frictionless drop-shotting is a skillful, viable strategy that well-rounded table tennis stars of tomorrow should learn to be able to overcome as they move up the ranks.

To draw an analogy with our mother sport, tennis is played on many different surfaces: grass, clay or hardcourt (several varieties) each of which provide different challenges. While our game utilizes a uniform playing surface, we get diversity from the different surfaces that cover our blades.

I think that's healthy and adds a further thinking dimension to the game.

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2008, 13:38 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
To draw an analogy with our mother sport, tennis is played on many different surfaces: grass, clay or hardcourt (several varieties) each of which provide different challenges. While our game utilizes a uniform playing surface, we get diversity from the different surfaces that cover our blades.

I think that's healthy and adds a further thinking dimension to the game.


That is a great analogy. Very well put. :D

Cheers.

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