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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2009, 23:04 
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Count Darkula
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BH: Tibhar Grass Dtecs
Well I've been using this pip for about 6 weeks in match play now and a bit longer than that prior to comp re-starting. I have a fairly good feel for this rubber now and it has some very good characteristics.

Pip Look and Feel
The pips are fairly stiff and roughish to the touch on the tops. The layout of the pips is in straight lines across the rubber. The pips don't seem to have much reinforcement on their base, yet none look like busting yet. Not that I've ever busted a pip, even when hitting with it.

Spin
The pip is not insensitive to spin, but like most LP's it makes returning spinny serves an easier task than with inverted. It still requires some picking of the spin on the ball for directing line and length back.

Chopping and pushing with the Palio is quite good and I can generally keep the ball fairly low fro them with it. Returning a heavily chopped ball requires some conscious effort to lift the ball back over the net.

Generation of its own spin is quite ineffective, although opponents can be caught out by how short the ball lands off what appears to be a heavy motion (especially on serve).

Spin Reversal and Deception
I find this to be the forte` of this rubber. A speeding ball met with a block by this rubber producing quite an effective amount of reversal or sink or spin continuation. Whatever you want to call it, the amount of underspin produced from a fast ball either no spin or topspin is quite wicked and many, many of them go into the net from the opponent. I haven't played against much heavy chop lately so I can't say, but I expect the result would be good topspin from the right stroke.

The Palio's deceptiveness with production of angles and being able to send the ball off in unexpected directions isn't bad, but its not as good as the C7 MP that I used previously. It may be a function of the respective amounts of time I used both rubbers for though, and I may improve my technique for this with this rubber yet. I think the ability to produce "wierd" balls from the Palio is quite good, but I need to work with it more to make this more effective for me.

Blocking
Blocking isn't as easy as some pips I've used as these pips are not as cushioning as some. However blocking is still possible and very effective with the right blade angle and blade control. Its not quite a stick the bat and hope shot (although sometimes it can be lol), its more of a careful finessing of the ball within the small timeframe you have. Given the speed of the rubber, it does take a knowledge of how to take pace off the ball to just the right amount to put it back on the table, without either overshooting or not reaching the net.

Speed
The speed of the pip is not slow, especially when hitting. This can make hitting very effective with the absolutely correct stroke, but is also means a slight incorrect blade angle will send the ball off the table. Even a push with a little loss of throttle control will go long or wide quite easily. Having said that, when I have laid into a ball with a flat hit from a height just above the net and near the table end, the opponent has no chance of returning it (none that I've hit one against yet anyway).

Overall
My overall impression of this pip is that it is one of the best LP's I have used yet. I don't think differences from LP to LP that I have used are always stark. Its often just slight differences in feel that make me more comfortable with certain shots with one rubber to another. The cost of the rubber seems to be quite cheap for those in Europe. Its not ultra expensive to us here in Aussieland, but the postage and conversion does bump it up a bit.

I have 2 unopened packs of this, one in red and one in black. I have yet to play with the black of the Palio. I generally prefer Red in my pip rubbers, but I don't like to ignore the black totally when I find a good one, just to see if there's anything in it for me. I'd appreciate comments on the black (or red too) from anyone who has used it though.

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S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009, 01:15 
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Hi Reb,

Thanks for this nice report.

I have a question for you: I have the feeling that Palio LPs are faster than Neptune, am I right? Perhaps they are less forgiving than Neptune as well, aren't they?

Thanks in advance,

Q.-

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009, 08:10 
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Thanks Reb for the excellent report on Palio. I agree with you on the characteristics of this rubber.


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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009, 08:12 
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Quelis, Palio appears to be faster than Neptune. I think Palio is better in reversing the spin than Neptune.


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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009, 14:48 
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Count Darkula
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Blade: Bty Gergely T5000
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BH: Tibhar Grass Dtecs
Yes, I would agree on both counts with GR. This probably makes the Palio a little harder to use, but the benefits from it are much more profound. :wink:

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! :twisted: Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009, 14:52 
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Very nice review Reb!

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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2009, 23:00 
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It is a very good review. Could you put any topspin on an incoming no-spin ball say using a looping action?

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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2009, 00:45 
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Count Darkula
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Blade: Bty Gergely T5000
FH: TSP Regalis Blue Max
BH: Tibhar Grass Dtecs
Would be very mild I think Mathias. I used to be able to do this with the C7 on the HK and the spin wasn't bad, nothing to write home about either. The Palio would probably be a little less, but I can't say I've been focussing on that with it, because I don't think its it's forte`.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! :twisted: Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2009, 01:47 
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Count Darkula
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Blade: Bty Gergely T5000
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BH: Tibhar Grass Dtecs
Ok just hit about 200 balls against my Training Board to test out Mathias' question. The answer is similar to what I expected. You can hit a light topspin with it with a very very good BH loop stroke with contact on the lower third of the blade. Its not a huge amount of spin and it varied upon how hard the brush is with a little forward movement to get the ball to "bite" the pips just a little. An angled roll across court seems to be more spin, but for a dummy loop its not bad straight down the line. The ball will dip a tiny bit if its hit from below net height to still land as long as too much power isn't applied. From net height or above quite a bit of power can be applied and with this it transitions from a "loop" into a full force "hit" the more power that is applied through the ball. Still requires quite accurate technique though or the ball overflies the table.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! :twisted: Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2009, 20:28 
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Hi Reb,
I have been reading your posts with interest and it is good to see that you are making a healthy comeback from your lay off.

Like you, i have had this rubber for a while now in red ox.
Primarily i have come over to the dark side for control on my b/h and this is ok.
I practice most weeks with different combinations and i am seriously looking to use lp sometime down the line. I think the strokes with anti have alot in common and it is fairly easy to transfer between the 2 on any given moment.

Have you tried ck in ox?
What blades have you tried/use it on?

I have been geting to grips with c+f3 on an aurora quite nicely and feel almost ready to use this on the right opponent, i.e. someone who is very spinny! It is a lovely forgiving rubber and great as an entry level lp.

When using the ck531a, it is on an Andro fibercomp and when i 1st tried it,
i found it difficult to use, but now with a light touch, proper technique and thoughtful play, it is very useful and very unpredictable for the opponent.

I am thinking of getting it in 0.6mm sponge and i think it should feel easier to use, now that i see how happy you are with it, so thanks for your updates.

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2009, 02:03 
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Count Darkula
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Hi Mozzy, great to know there is another Palio CK admirer out there. I have used it in Ox, in fact just the other night. (See my Loopsonic post in equip section). I think for me the Fibrecomp would be too slow with CK in Ox. I find I need quite a light touch with it with the 0.6 sponge on the Cayman as it is pretty fast. However it pays me dividends in many ways. Blocking, whilst needing good reflexes and just the right control produces some stunning results at times. I think on a slower blade with the sponge it would be easier to use, but of course the results may not be as spectacular. By this I mean there as some blocks I have made that go back so fast and with such skid that the opponent either can't recover to reach it, or mis-hits anyway. Drop shots also go faster so they have less time to make it to the ball when it is headed to the table side.

I'd consider using the Ox on the Cayman for better control (not sending them long) if I find I'm doing that too often, but for now its been ok. I also tried the Ox on the T-8 and the Joola R1, but they were only briefly against the training board.

I don't know the cloud and fog to play with, but you are right about CK, it gives a lot for the opponent to think about and I find they get quite hesitant about their shots after they have dumped a few in the net. I've had a lot of them looking at their bats strangely this season. :twisted: :lol: It's a real delight. Sometimes the best one is where you've not been able to keep a return low from their pace and you pop it up. They think aha I gotcha, they go to smash and oops it went in the net again! :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol: 8)

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! :twisted: Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2009, 08:51 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Hi Mozzy, great to know there is another Palio CK admirer out there. 8)

Me too, as you know - this pip will really catch on if Insider does go.

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Switching back to:-
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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2009, 01:52 
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Count Darkula
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Dingwol, how different are Insider and Palio? Why would someone pay $35-40AUD more for Insider if its so similar to Palio? There must be something in it to be worth that surely? Or is it people just rather say they use a pricier rubber? :?

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! :twisted: Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2009, 14:52 
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I think the main difference is that Insider is much slower than Palio. Palio is faster with more spin reversal than the Insider. The advantage of playing with Insider is that one can stay very close to the table like a frictionless rubber.

With Palio one has to play like a classic defensive player. One can chop and hit with Palio. One has to play totally different game with Insider than Palio.

Note that the differences described above are only my observation which might be entirely different from the opinion of other players.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2009, 16:25 
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I agree GR that speed is the difference. I don't think the reversal difference is not pronounced but if anything I think Insider has the best.

I think Palio is probably 15% faster and I therefore either need to take a step back from the table or find a slightly slower set up.

I can attack a bit easier with the Palio - I guess because of the speed but I do also find a loop will rip into the pips and grip more, hence less reversal and harder to control. I have this on a Barricade and can play well with it on this - not so sure how I would get on with my faster FW+ set up.

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Switching back to:-
Tango Ultra 2mm black, red dtecs OX on Tachi, having fiddled around recently with:-
Donic Bluefire M3 2mm black / Grass dtecs special on Perfect 9952SRZ6 GK S-Kk-A(-)6-Kk-RZ 154-12
Well done bat!


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