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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2019, 03:50 
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Blade: Nittaku Acoustic (C-Pen)
FH: DHS Skyline TG2 Neo
BH: DHS Skyline 3-60
iskandar taib wrote:
Those look like balsa blades. No wonder they're light.. :lol:

Proper setup for penhold (he plays Chinese penhold) is with a 10-15mm gap between the handle piece and the forehand rubber. The reverse rubber (I'd actually leave it off unless you really do want to play RPB), I don't know. Two sheets of rubber makes the racket heavy, if you aren't going to use it, leave it off and you save a ton of weight, which is better for regular penhold play. Or you could put a sheet of OX long pips on the reverse side.

For the last 2-3 sessions I've been playing regularly with the Tornado/Yinhe 9000 bat - the Red Dragon/Octopus bat is looking to be a bag-sitter. The Rakza 7 is getting a little old, I could boost it again and keep using it but I think it's time to retire it and put something else on that blade.

Iskandar


Can you really say anything is “proper” nowadays?

I’m also a penholder who uses the reverse side. I found it beneficial to have full rubber coverage and I actually like the stability of a heavier paddle. It’s a bit daunting on my wrist at times though...


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2019, 11:50 
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Or would you rather "as widely done"? I don't play penhold, I just see what other people do. :lol: Yeah, I imagine the wrist (or maybe it's the fingers?) is the reason why penholders (at least, the classic sort) like light rackets, the second sheet really does add a lot of weight.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2019, 14:11 
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Blade: DHS PowerG-9 OFF++
FH: Yasaka Rakza X
BH: Palio Thor
Alas wrote:
man_iii wrote:
Just now I removed Rakza7 and 729 SuperFX from my training blade.

Stag Balsa Koto + Xiom Omega V Asia black + Yinhe Jupiter II 38deg red ( provincial ? ) == 164 g ( 64g blade, 55g XOVA , 45g YJ2 )

Mounted back TG2Neo black on the 729 Bomb ... already has H3 original red untuned ...

I will need to try it all out coming weekend :-P plenty of things keeping me busy and away from the table :-P :lol: :lol: :lol: :@ :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Also I got Rakza9 on my TSP BB7 with Xiom Omega V Tour ... ( some of my older Euro rubbers )


Crazy light set up! How much gap do you have before the handle?

I just put fresh H3PTO and G1 on my acoustic (this time with no gap) and it’s 203g!! Takes some time getting used to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep due to tennis elbow I tried several setups using balsa blades. Now I am able cope with heavier setups like the DHS PowerG-9. I really enjoy balsa blades now so I have kept with it.

It is really about gradually increasing to heavier rackets than jumping to the heaviest setup.

RPB is such a useful technique I don't see modern C-pen players not transitioning or learning it.

Better to get used to the heavier blades with rubber both sides. Also if you TPB use PO OX /thin sponge or SP rubbers until u need to learn RPB.

Edit: what was that question again? ;-) do I leave a gap? Not anymore on the bigger head/oversize blades but on the smaller size TSP BB7 and Versal I do leave a gap.... Go figure I don't know why I prefer doing that :-P :lol:

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-YRakza9/XOmegaVT
    2. FH/BH-TSP Spectol/Yinhe Qing OX
  • 729 Bomb C-P : FH/BH-DHS H2 Orig/DHS H3 Orig
  • TSP Versal :
    1. FH/BH-XOmegaVA/YJupiter-II
    2. FH/BH-*blank*
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH- DHS TG2Neo/Gewo HypeXT 47
  • Dr. Neubauer
    High Technology
    Cypress-Carbon(ST)
    ***************************** : FH/BH-YRakza7/YRakza7
==========================================================


Last edited by man_iii on 31 Jul 2019, 16:18, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2019, 14:37 
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Blade: Nittaku Acoustic (C-Pen)
FH: DHS Skyline TG2 Neo
BH: DHS Skyline 3-60
man_iii wrote:
Yep due to tennis elbow I tried several setups using balsa blades. Now I am able cope with heavier setups like the DHS PowerG-9. I really enjoy balsa blades now so I have kept with it.

It is really about gradually increasing to heavier rackets than jumping to the heaviest setup.

RPB is such a useful technique I don't see modern C-pen players not transitioning or learning it.

Better to get used to the heavier blades with rubber both sides. Also if you TPB use PO OX /thin sponge or SP rubbers until u need to learn RPB.


Yeah, RPB is very useful for today's game. My favorite thing to do is BH flick / chaquita with varying spin.

Anyway, regarding training rubbers - I wanted to transition my game into Chinese style and it went something like this:
On Yasaka Sweden Classic:
(FH) Yasaka Rising Dragon (1" gap) --> Yasaka Shinning Dragon --> Nittaku Hurricane 3 Pro Turbo Orange (no gap)
(BH) Yasaka Rakza 7 (1" gap) --> Nittaku Fastarc-G1 (no gap)

On Yinhe N3:
(FH) Yinhe Mercury II (US Quarter gap)
(BH) Yinhe Mercury II (US Quarter gap)

On Nittaku Acoustic:
(FH) Yasaka Shining Dragon --> Nittaku Hurricane 3 Pro Turbo Orange (1" Gap) --> H3PTO (no gap)
(BH) Yasaka Rakza 7 (1" gap) --> Nittaku Fastarc-G1 (no gap)

My coach has me switch between set-ups to understand different blade and rubber combo characteristics and also the relationship to spin, paddle angle and stroke.


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 13 Aug 2019, 12:05 
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iskandar taib wrote:
OK. Now for the comments. The Tornado came first. Not terribly impressive at first glance, the sponge definitely FELT harder than Rakza 7. I mounted it to a M8 blade, replacing an old sheet of AK47 Blue (Yinhe 9000 on the other side, had been in use for a while). First impressions were that it was slightly slower than Rakza 7, but I could switch back and forth between the two without much trouble. This despite Tornado being moderately tacky and Rakza 7 being non-tacky. I prepared a new blade (another M8) and mounted Octopus on one side and Red Dragon on the other. It had the effect of freaking out the others when I brought it out the first time. Initial hitting around with it revealed something disappointing - despite feeling really grippy, the Red Dragon felt like it lacked spin. So did the Octopus. This was especially true for light contact loops. I could adjust to it if I hit the ball a little heavier, but it felt somewhat disquieting, like there was some sort of lack of control. Switching back to the bat with the Tornado brought immediate relief - the control came back. I've played maybe 3-4 hours total with both of these bats and am quite certain of this difference. Mind you, it isn't much - like most differences between rubbers, it's a subtle thing - you know something's different (or something's wrong) but you have to think really hard to 1) become convinced that something really is different, and 2) figure out what it is, exactly. Have I come across this sort of thing before? Yes, with Yinhe Mars II (another Chinese non-tacky rubber). I had the same disquieting feeling about it, but I couldn't exactly say why. I've NEVER felt this same way with any of the real Tensors I've tried - Rasant, Rakza X, Rakza 7 - and Evolution MX-P (which I believe is actually a Japanese sheet). Nor did AK47 Blue feel like this. So despite the claims comparing Red Dragon to "Butterf-- Tenerg-", I'll have to say, well, I hope Tenergy isn't like this...


An update. I've made a point to use the "yellow bat" exclusively the last two or three playing sessions, and I must say it's grown on me. I can now play effectively with it... it's about using a more forward stroke, and impacting the ball harder. I still think I have more control with the Tornado, especially over the table (emphasis on the "THINK"). As I said before, differences between rubbers are subtle, and it's hard to put a finger on what exactly is different.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 15:37 
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Blade: DHS PowerG-9 OFF++
FH: Yasaka Rakza X
BH: Palio Thor
man_iii wrote:
Just now I removed Rakza7 and 729 SuperFX from my training blade.

Stag Balsa Koto + Xiom Omega V Asia black + Yinhe Jupiter II 38deg red ( provincial ? ) == 164 g ( 64g blade, 55g XOVA , 45g YJ2 )

Mounted back TG2Neo black on the 729 Bomb ... already has H3 original red untuned ...

I will need to try it all out coming weekend :-P plenty of things keeping me busy and away from the table :-P :lol: :lol: :lol: :@ :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Also I got Rakza9 on my TSP BB7 with Xiom Omega V Tour ... ( some of my older Euro rubbers )


Some updates : Stag BK + XOVA + YJ2( provincial ) ---> rubbers are still hard after 3 sessions ( 2x 3 = 6 hours ) of play at the club. I am over-shooting the table quite a bit more and unless I play fast swings and low arcs I can't land the ball half-way on the table .... slow loops are just popping up and I cant put enough spin on the ball with a slower stroke ... both XOVA and YJ2-Prov are still too hard and too fast ... I am going to switch out the TG2Neo and H3Orig maybe in a months time ... I will try to "break-in" the new rubbers ... maybe I need to play a lot more with them before they settle down ...

729Bomb+ TG2Neo + H3Orig played as expected ... slow and medium pace and unable to smash decently ( Balsa-cork + Hard rubbers are not letting to hit through spin ... not bottoming out ... ) but amazing drop/touch returns/blocks and super-spinny loops and heavy cuts/chops.

TSP BB7+ YR9 + XOVT played as expected ... too fast :-D :lol: and away from the table it was medium fast.

Update 1: Yinhe Jupiter II Provincial 38deg and Xiom Omega V Asia are of similar hardness. Very light touch but full brush stroke is needed to use either rubber short or mid distance from the table. Even a slightly slower stroke without the necessary contact will drop or bounce the ball immediately. Jupiter II is the higher throw ( arc ) rubber compared to Omega V Asia.

Xiom Vega Asia is also harder version compared to Vega Euro or Japan. Again proper brush stroke with contact is needed else ball slides off the rubber. Omega V Tour rubbers have started to deteriorate after nearly 4 years of intermittent use.

729 SuperFX rubbers are also showing signs of wear after 5 years. Finally the Tibhar 5Q Sound disintegrated at the edges after nearly 7 years :lol: Rakza7 and Rakza9 and RakzaX are going strong. Best rubbers by far when taken good care of like MarkV !

/Update1

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-YRakza9/XOmegaVT
    2. FH/BH-TSP Spectol/Yinhe Qing OX
  • 729 Bomb C-P : FH/BH-DHS H2 Orig/DHS H3 Orig
  • TSP Versal :
    1. FH/BH-XOmegaVA/YJupiter-II
    2. FH/BH-*blank*
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH- DHS TG2Neo/Gewo HypeXT 47
  • Dr. Neubauer
    High Technology
    Cypress-Carbon(ST)
    ***************************** : FH/BH-YRakza7/YRakza7
==========================================================


Last edited by man_iii on 09 Oct 2019, 23:57, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2019, 16:58 
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Latest rubbers. I finally got around to mounting the two sheets of Bloom on one of my M8s. The black sheet is Bloom Power, 45 degrees (H45 in 729-ese), and the red sheet is Bloom Spin, also H45. Given that normal, baseline 729, Reactor Corbor, Kokutaku 868 etc. are 42 degrees (Tianjin degrees I think, in all cases), the whole Bloom series has seriously harder sponges. Control has 42 and 44, Arc, Power, Speed and Spin 45 and 47. The usual finger squeeze test doesn't reveal sponges that are rock-hard, in fact, they feel pretty normal. Yinhe 9000 feels harder, Reactor Tornado significantly softer. Power has a dark purple sponge, while Spin has sort of a slightly purplish red sponge. As noted before, the only two Blooms that appear on the LARC are Power and Spin. None have ITTF numbers on the topsheet, but instead have "RITC numbers" (e.g. Power is marked RITC 007).

Image

Weights:

729 Bloom Power
Black 2.2mm H45 63.99g 164x164mm 0.238 g/cm^2

729 Bloom Spin
Red 2.2mm H45 65.45 165x164mm 0.242 g/cm^2

The rubber is packaged in thick, vacuum-sealed plastic envelopes - which is how Yinhe packages most of its rubbers. Both are QUITE tacky - it does feel a little different compared to cheaper rubber surfaces, though I can't really describe the difference. Like Three Sword Red Dragon (though not really as much), taking them out of the package invokes high quality. So next came the usual battery of tests - counterlooping (OK), pushing (OK), close-to-table hitting (OK), chopping (really good), flicking serves (OK), serving (REALLY good with high spin backspin serves). What makes these rubbers different? I'd have to say, control. Compared to stuff I've played with recently, it's a little faster and has slightly less control than Rakza 7 and Reactor Tornado, and has more control than.. oh, a lot of stuff. It feels different compared to Three Sword Red Dragon and Tuttle Ocotopus (these being non-tacky rubers). Bloom Spin is noticably slower than Bloom Power, and generates more topspin (and has "higher arc"). Both are fantastic for producing ultra-spinny backspin serves. These are $10 rubbers, definitely worth the price. You can tell the difference between them and $5 rubbers.

I'm not really sure WHY 729 released this series rubbers - it's not like the 729 product line (or many other rubber product lines for that matter) makes up a coherent or rational collection of rubbers in any case. Where would Bloom fit in with the different Prestos and older stuff like Battle II? My guess is, like everyone else, 729 has to release new rubbers now and then to keep market share.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2020, 14:31 
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Teng te-deng! Drumroll...

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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2020, 15:35 
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Yup... took the plunge.

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It's mounted on a M8 (the rubber cost about ten times what the blade did.. :lol: ). Not sure what I was expecting when I took it out of the pack, I was expecting something.. exotic, I suppose. The surface looked somewhat dull, you could see the pips "poking through" the topsheet even though the topsheet was opaque (EmRatThich claimed that since you could see the pips "poking through" the topsheet on a Chinese bat this meant the Chinese were boosting their Tenergy). It just looked plain.. ordinary. Some measurements:

Butterfly Tenergy 05
Black 68.12g 167.5x180.5mm 0.225g/cm^2

68.12g - that's BLOODY heavy. Or is it??? Note the rubber's a good centimeter longer than Tensor sheets. And maybe 15mm longer than a typical Chinese sheet. So it's actually pretty light when you compare areal densities.

Andro Rasant
black 2.1mm 68.9g 169x170mm 0.240g/cm^2

Andro Rasant Turbo
black 2.1mm 72.67g 170x171mm 0.250 g/cm^2

Tibhar Evolution MX-P
black 2.1mm 72.57g 168x179mm** 0.241g/cm^2

Yasaka Rakza X
black Max 71.60g 169x170mm 0.249g/cm^2

Yasaka Rakza 7
Black max 67.10g 169.5x170mm 0.233g/cm^2

** This is why I think MX-P is actually made in Japan

The sponge? Unremarkable - the pores are obviously coarser than the typical Chinese sheet, but it wasn't anything like the huge pores you see when you open up a sheet of, say, Rasant. People say it's crumbly, didn't have too much trouble cutting it. The Eagle sponge (see below) was more crumbly.

What's it like playing? Hrmm... Despite all my previous disappointments, I was still expecting some sort of quantum leap. After all, this rubber is supposed to be the ultimate. This is what a big majority of pros use, after all. And there must be a reason why people who are sponsored by other companies still use Tenergy. Yup, I found it disappointing. Yes, it makes a tremendous amount of spin (I could tell because the ball was landing closer to the net that in normally does, and sidespin jumps sideways more than usual), I could hit with it, I could push with it, I could serve with it, I could return serves with it, I could loop (both light brush loops and in-your-sponge fast loops) with it, I could even chop with it. To the limits of my ability, of course, and against opponents of my level. But it's neither this super rubber that was too fast for me to handle, nor was it so good it would immediately add 50 points to my rating. So it failed on both counts.

So was I sorry for spending 2300 baht (something like USD75) on this sheet? No, not really. I was going to do it at some point or another to satisfy my curiosity. Now it's satisfied.. :lol:

On the backhand side, I mounted a sheet of 61 Second Eagle. I've had this sheet lying around for a while, since Eacheng had that Christmas sale a couple years back, when these sheets were going for about $6. It's got this striking chrome yellow colored sponge (same color as a Piper Cub) with Tenergy-sized pores. Rather soft, too, and when you remove the "protector" sheet it turns out to have a very slight tack (essentially tackless). I'd try flipping the bat around to see if I could tell the difference between this and Tenergy. It's actually quite hard. It is marginally slower, makes a LITTLE less spin (balls were hitting a little further from the net). But I didn't have to alter my strokes much, if at all. I did find that Tenergy makes a fine backhand rubber, though, when I played with the Eagle on the forehand.. :lol:

61 Second Eagle
Red 2.2mm 59.49g 165x167.5mm 0.215g/cm^2

It's also pretty lightweight. Good stuff. I like it better than Kangaroo.

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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 18 Mar 2020, 17:24 
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Another one bites the dust!


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