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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2020, 01:44 
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NextLevel wrote:
Here is my last training session where I even tried to do this:

https://youtu.be/dYIc6t5P-V8?t=116

Here is the one time I tried it away from the table - not enough backswing lol:

https://youtu.be/dYIc6t5P-V8?t=298

Fun to learn but I doubt I will consistently swing this way even though I do something like it without the body movement a lot - backhand for me will always be a creature of instinct (subservient to technique), forehand a creature of diligent technique (subservient to instinct).


Working on the shove has helped your body moment a lot, even if you don't think you'll use the shot.

I think you need a more closed racket angle at the end of the backswing to help you get just a bit more spin. That's what I see.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2020, 03:56 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
Here is my last training session where I even tried to do this:

https://youtu.be/dYIc6t5P-V8?t=116

Here is the one time I tried it away from the table - not enough backswing lol:

https://youtu.be/dYIc6t5P-V8?t=298

Fun to learn but I doubt I will consistently swing this way even though I do something like it without the body movement a lot - backhand for me will always be a creature of instinct (subservient to technique), forehand a creature of diligent technique (subservient to instinct).


Working on the shove has helped your body moment a lot, even if you don't think you'll use the shot.

I think you need a more closed racket angle at the end of the backswing to help you get just a bit more spin. That's what I see.


In warmups for sure. In matches and other practice drills? That's where I don't know... too many years of arm swinging to really change...

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2020, 04:00 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
wilkinru wrote:


The first few shots not too excited about, but the last 10 seconds or so does feel different. I'm making really solid contact with the ball, unlike any of my other shots. So much so that a harder sponge may be in order if I continue with this.

Every time I do this practice it feels better. I also now see why Harimoto turns his paddle up on some shots. He's aware this shot can have trouble getting over the net so he twists his wrist up to get more spin on lower balls.


The arm straightening is better, but even on the last few you are dropping your racket (almost as if you intend to go upwards vs backspin) rather than bringing it back towards your chest and this is giving your stroke a vertical swing. A lot of the verticality in the swing comes from the fold-squat/unfold-unsquat, so your racket mostly has to move back and forth - there is very little need for the racket to go below the table on this stroke lose to the table. Since I am used to years of swinging with the arm and playing table tennis standing straight, I have a milder version of your problem. IF you have decent equipment, you really don't need to lift the ball as much as you are doing with the vertical arm swing.


I agree with this. I have same problem myself.

Edit - after watching some players, I'm not sure if I still completely agree with myself and NL. Let me think about it.


I am going up a little too much. I think this shot requires a lot of little adjustments. I was able to loop backspin last night with it - it was quite effective against the awkward highish backspin ball near the end line. Certainly not as much spin but heaps more reliable and a very strong contact that I could direct to anywhere on the table. It's going to take time to learn this and I have obvious old biases on how to hit these balls. Each mini practice session it feels better even if I'm sort of creating my own style to it.

I'm getting 6 sessions in a week right now...very fun to be working on new stuff and really sharpening the old stuff too.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2020, 04:05 
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Russ,

I have to keep stressing that it is a quality shot. I just look at it compared to what Hari does and point out some of the differences. But it is quality even if it is a mutt.

EDIT: I answered my own question. Just need to look more closely.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2020, 04:35 
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NextLevel wrote:
Russ,

I have to keep stressing that it is a quality shot. I just look at it compared to what Hari does and point out some of the differences. But it is quality even if it is a mutt.

EDIT: I answered my own question. Just need to look more closely.


This guy is doing exactly what I always want to do with the ball: hit the back/top of it with tremendous speed.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2020, 06:55 
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Brett better have that video ready...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ahKjN_BNo

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2020, 15:42 
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NextLevel wrote:
Brett better have that video ready...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ahKjN_BNo


It's looking really good. I think he should play more down, but it's already mostly there. I'll get to work on the backhand block video.

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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2020, 22:35 
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Video ttEDGE 2020 04 Backhand Block is now available on ttEDGE.com

There is some new detail here if you aren't very familiar with all the existing content.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 03:11 
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Hello, all. Firstly, thanks a lot for the ttEdge 2020 videos! I've been following them closely and thinking about it a lot.

Since school is currently closed, I set up a robot at school for me to use. I spent an hour fidgeting around with the settings then took these videos.

Any advice for my backhand would be appreciated! :angel:

Diagonal Front View:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0reQgGKp9c

Side View:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTtGrmI428

I didn't bother cutting the videos because I only did 3 sets of 20 seconds total per view, so I just kept everything in.

Also, I want to improve my forehand power by adding more body into it, so if anyone has any advice for this, it would be greatly appreciated, too :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeD6xKST1Yw

Thank you!


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 03:29 
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I don't have any comments on your forehand mickd. It looks like you have a vanity project going. I would just practice with better players and use it against more and more balls with better timing and spin as the focus. Problems with that stroke are less about power and more about consistency and placement. Maybe you can use the upper arm with more variety and power but it is still a good stroke. Power is not the issue.

For the backhand, the swing is too small and contained because you aren't activating the elbow sufficiently. Use the elbow to push thr racket in the direction of the ball as well as your bow/squat. You look more like you are turning the wrist in place which gives decent spin hut lacks direction control under pressure.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 03:49 
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mickd,

The side angle on the backhand was an excellent idea. I'm not seeing the right type of fold here. I'd like to see your torso go down more and then spring up with the shot which should aid your arm, no matter if you want to do Henzel or Harimoto style. Right now you are pushing your knees out but the torso needs to be moving also. Watch the block video Brett just posted for this.

If you want more out of the forehand, bring the paddle down lower on the backswing or even a bit back and explode up more. You may not find more 'power' but you may find more quality.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 03:51 
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Brett you might like this point.

https://youtu.be/9AVkNI1f8tM?t=111

Block and then the backhand shove to win the point.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 07:28 
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mickd wrote:
Hello, all. Firstly, thanks a lot for the ttEdge 2020 videos! I've been following them closely and thinking about it a lot.

Since school is currently closed, I set up a robot at school for me to use. I spent an hour fidgeting around with the settings then took these videos.

Any advice for my backhand would be appreciated! :angel:

Diagonal Front View:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0reQgGKp9c

Side View:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTtGrmI428

I didn't bother cutting the videos because I only did 3 sets of 20 seconds total per view, so I just kept everything in.

Also, I want to improve my forehand power by adding more body into it, so if anyone has any advice for this, it would be greatly appreciated, too :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeD6xKST1Yw

Thank you!


Hey Mick,

I know that NextLevel has posted a response though I deliberately haven't read it. I will read it after posting myself.

Let's start with the backhand. I think that you've done a great job and I know that you understand what is happening. I like your forward arm movement and your much-improved body movement. If I have to say something (because all coaches need to make up some bs) I'd say squat a split second earlier. For the first time, I feel that your body is starting to power this shot.

Your forehand looks really good. Nice twisting in of the right knee resulting in torso rotation. If I have to say something (because all coaches need to make up some bs), it's going to be - stop thinking that you need to step into this shot with both feet (I had to watch the video 5 times before making this one up). Watch Ma Long just hold his ground here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Oef4_gIvA
It's a bit hard to explain but I can feel that you are losing something by not keeping your feet on the ground more during the forward swing.

I'm trying to learn these shots too and I'm mostly just shadow swinging and doing some LTT106 That's what happens when you are on a 28 total lockdown. It's now my only cardio training. It's also an experiment to see what happens to my shots when I one day get to play them on a real table with a real ball.

The truth is that the ttEDGE 2020 isn't what I did when I played competitively (I stopped 14 years ago). It's not even what I taught up until a few years ago. Although I can demonstrate and teach it, I still have a way to go before I totally own it. If someone had taught me this stuff when I was 9 years old, I think my playing career would have been very different.

Let's address the elephant in the room. Does shadowing swing in your room really improve your technique? Can playing with a robot really improve your technique? At this moment in time, I have 2 choices. The first is to do nothing. The second is to do something.

Mick will clearly need to start practicing with a human when the world goes back to normal. I do, however, believe that it's a good thing to sort out your technique with a robot or by shadow swinging. Said in another way, it's better to do something than nothing.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 08:00 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
mickd wrote:
Hello, all. Firstly, thanks a lot for the ttEdge 2020 videos! I've been following them closely and thinking about it a lot.

Since school is currently closed, I set up a robot at school for me to use. I spent an hour fidgeting around with the settings then took these videos.

Any advice for my backhand would be appreciated! :angel:

Diagonal Front View:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0reQgGKp9c

Side View:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnTtGrmI428

I didn't bother cutting the videos because I only did 3 sets of 20 seconds total per view, so I just kept everything in.

Also, I want to improve my forehand power by adding more body into it, so if anyone has any advice for this, it would be greatly appreciated, too :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeD6xKST1Yw

Thank you!


Hey Mick,

I know that NextLevel has posted a response though I deliberately haven't read it. I will read it after posting myself.

Let's start with the backhand. I think that you've done a great job and I know that you understand what is happening. I like your forward arm movement and your much-improved body movement. If I have to say something (because all coaches need to make up some bs) I'd say squat a split second earlier. For the first time, I feel that your body is starting to power this shot.

Your forehand looks really good. Nice twisting in of the right knee resulting in torso rotation. If I have to say something (because all coaches need to make up some bs), it's going to be - stop thinking that you need to step into this shot with both feet (I had to watch the video 5 times before making this one up). Watch Ma Long just hold his ground here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Oef4_gIvA
It's a bit hard to explain but I can feel that you are losing something by not keeping your feet on the ground more during the forward swing.

I'm trying to learn these shots too and I'm mostly just shadow swinging and doing some LTT106 That's what happens when you are on a 28 total lockdown. It's now my only cardio training. It's also an experiment to see what happens to my shots when I one day get to play them on a real table with a real ball.

The truth is that the ttEDGE 2020 isn't what I did when I played competitively (I stopped 14 years ago). It's not even what I taught up until a few years ago. Although I can demonstrate and teach it, I still have a way to go before I totally own it. If someone had taught me this stuff when I was 9 years old, I think my playing career would have been very different.

Let's address the elephant in the room. Does shadowing swing in your room really improve your technique? Can playing with a robot really improve your technique? At this moment in time, I have 2 choices. The first is to do nothing. The second is to do something.

Mick will clearly need to start practicing with a human when the world goes back to normal. I do, however, believe that it's a good thing to sort out your technique with a robot or by shadow swinging. Said in another way, it's better to do something than nothing.


I just read NL and Wilkinru's responses. I understand and appreciate everything they said, but I stand behind my own response above too.

I can feel the body powering the backhand and I feel that the arm movement is "right" in its own way. The forehand is close to great.

If I walked into a hall of elite players and someone had identical mechanics going on (just at a higher level of play), I wouldn't say much if I were the coach in charge of the session.

At a recent tournament, I watched a highly ranked international player training against embarrassingly simple multiball and it went on for hours. The player was using the most perfect technique and it was completely mesmerizing. No one would ever give this player such simple balls in a match though he still chooses to train in this way.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 08:38 
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I think the reason why mickd's backhand swing looks small is that he likes to take the ball early, which is fine. If you play quickly, there is physically little time for a large body movement. But I also agree that the momentum is there.

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