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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 13:45 
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NextLevel wrote:
IF anyone is notorious for have strong backhands close to the table, it has to be the Chinese national team women, right? So they should be playing backhands that are short and whippy mostly with the wrist like mickd and since they have perfect technique, they should be using their bodies appropriately right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxLxm4pzBQA


I don't know if it is relevant, but I think those ladies are playing at speeds at which none of us (except maybe Brett) would actually see the ball.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 13:47 
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fastmover wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
IF anyone is notorious for have strong backhands close to the table, it has to be the Chinese national team women, right? So they should be playing backhands that are short and whippy mostly with the wrist like mickd and since they have perfect technique, they should be using their bodies appropriately right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxLxm4pzBQA


I don't know if it is relevant, but I think those ladies are playing at speeds at which none of us (except maybe Brett) would actually see the ball.


So they have less time than mickd does and they are taking bigger strokes. Yet mickd needs his strokes to be smaller than theirs though they play close to the table?

Trying to understand the logic of your argument behind the size of mickd's stroke.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 13:50 
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Here's what I'm trying to say. If you keep your torso very bent/curled/folded over the ball for the entire
backhand shot, you can just bend and straighten your knees to create a legitimate, alternative type shove. That's the last piece of the stupid puzzle.

Examples are coming later.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 13:57 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Here's what I'm trying to say. If you keep your torso very bent/curled/folded over the ball for the entire
backhand shot, you can just bend and straighten your knees to create a legitimate, alternative type shove. That's the last piece of the stupid puzzle.

Examples are coming later.


So you mean that there is more than one good way to use the body to make a shot in table tennis on the backhand? I am amazed by that....

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 13:58 
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NextLevel wrote:
fastmover wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
IF anyone is notorious for have strong backhands close to the table, it has to be the Chinese national team women, right? So they should be playing backhands that are short and whippy mostly with the wrist like mickd and since they have perfect technique, they should be using their bodies appropriately right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxLxm4pzBQA


I don't know if it is relevant, but I think those ladies are playing at speeds at which none of us (except maybe Brett) would actually see the ball.


So they have less time than mickd does and they are taking bigger strokes. Yet mickd needs his strokes to be smaller than theirs though they play close to the table?

Trying to understand the logic of your argument behind the size of mickd's stroke.


Below you'll find 2 photos demonstrating the length of Mick's stroke. It is the longest it could possibly be.

Attachment:
mick 1.JPG
mick 1.JPG [ 30.9 KiB | Viewed 59 times ]
Attachment:
mick 2.JPG
mick 2.JPG [ 30.21 KiB | Viewed 59 times ]

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 13:59 
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NextLevel wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Here's what I'm trying to say. If you keep your torso very bent/curled/folded over the ball for the entire
backhand shot, you can just bend and straighten your knees to create a legitimate, alternative type shove. That's the last piece of the stupid puzzle.

Examples are coming later.


So you mean that there is more than one good way to use the body to make a shot in table tennis on the backhand? I am amazed by that....


I've never said there wasn't. Go back through the last 5 pages of posts and watch 2020 03.

I do, however, believe there are a billion wrong ways to play a backhand.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 14:15 
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NextLevel wrote:
IF anyone is notorious for have strong backhands close to the table, it has to be the Chinese national team women, right? So they should be playing backhands that are short and whippy mostly with the wrist like mickd and since they have perfect technique, they should be using their bodies appropriately right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxLxm4pzBQA


Yes, Chen Meng is a perfect example, a good percentage of the time (she mixes it up a bit). Thanks for providing the footage. In this point, she uses the Mick technique a few times https://youtu.be/SxLxm4pzBQA?t=168

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 14:31 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
IF anyone is notorious for have strong backhands close to the table, it has to be the Chinese national team women, right? So they should be playing backhands that are short and whippy mostly with the wrist like mickd and since they have perfect technique, they should be using their bodies appropriately right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxLxm4pzBQA


Yes, Chen Meng is a perfect example, a good percentage of the time (she mixes it up a bit). Thanks for providing the footage. In this point, she uses the Mick technique a few times https://youtu.be/SxLxm4pzBQA?t=168


She is swinging at the ball though. You can trace a good path with her racket on just about every shot.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 14:40 
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NextLevel wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
IF anyone is notorious for have strong backhands close to the table, it has to be the Chinese national team women, right? So they should be playing backhands that are short and whippy mostly with the wrist like mickd and since they have perfect technique, they should be using their bodies appropriately right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxLxm4pzBQA


Yes, Chen Meng is a perfect example, a good percentage of the time (she mixes it up a bit). Thanks for providing the footage. In this point, she uses the Mick technique a few times https://youtu.be/SxLxm4pzBQA?t=168


She is swinging at the ball though. You can trace a good path with her racket on just about every shot.


Sometimes she does fold/unfold and sometimes she does the "Mick". It depends on the length of the ball, which could be another long discussion.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 14:53 
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Brett Clarke wrote:

Below you'll find 2 photos demonstrating the length of Mick's stroke. It is the longest it could possibly be.

Attachment:
mick 1.JPG
Attachment:
mick 2.JPG


I think the backswing could be better loaded with the racket pointing further back towards win with more room for the forearm to drive part of the stroke. When I see strokes like this, I usually suspect that something is not going to go right when the ball shows up in a match with dubious location or quality and he has to play a shot.

The picture does look better than I am giving the stroke credit for, but I look at it and still get the nagging feeling that the elbow is underinvolved as part of a base stroke. In any case, if it works, it works.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 14:54 
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Brett Clarke wrote:

Sometimes she does fold/unfold and sometimes she does the "Mick". It depends on the length of the ball, which could be another long discussion.



Yes she generates power from her body in various ways but she always swings at the ball with a bigger *arm motion* than Mick does.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 15:36 
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Below is an example of what I've been saying for two pages. The two guys below are both using their version of the shove and they are probably equally effective but totally different. Fan is straight-up using the version as I teach in ttEDGE 2020 03. Ma is using the version as we've been discussing since Mick posted. You need to wait for the slow-mo to kick in at 00:15 to really see what is happening.

It was tempting to ignore this topic and just tell Mick he was on the right track, without context. Most people send me private footage and I respond in different ways. Now we are here, I may make a video to explain the Ma alternative because it is interesting.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 22:14 
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Brett Clarke wrote:

I teach that almost all of the momentum comes from the bending and straightening of the torso, and the knees play a minor role.


Interesting... Who made LTT113 then?

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 22:49 
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fastmover wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:

I teach that almost all of the momentum comes from the bending and straightening of the torso, and the knees play a minor role.


Interesting... Who made LTT113 then?


A guy who was teaching members to play backhand topspin against backspin. It's still what I teach today too...squat and thrust.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2020, 23:07 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
fastmover wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:

I teach that almost all of the momentum comes from the bending and straightening of the torso, and the knees play a minor role.


Interesting... Who made LTT113 then?


A guy who was teaching members to play backhand topspin against backspin. It's still what I teach today too...squat and thrust.


I used to think that the basic mechanic is the same on both shots (against backspin/topspin).

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