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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 14:16 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
The average rally in top 100 goes for 3.6 hits (including serve).


Sorry for getting into this conversation, but I guess it is for an attacker vs. attacker match-up. My guess is that when at least one defenders gets involved, rally length should be a bit longer. Does your approach change drastically in this case?

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 14:50 
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Dr.Pivot wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
The average rally in top 100 goes for 3.6 hits (including serve).


Sorry for getting into this conversation, but I guess it is for an attacker vs. attacker match-up. My guess is that when at least one defenders gets involved, rally length should be a bit longer. Does your approach change drastically in this case?


There aren't many defenders left at international level.

I've coach against Gionis but I don't have the match to show which is a shame, because it was very interesting. I've also coached against Filus.

I'll talk about the game from an attacker's perspective. There are 2 major factors that will contribute to your results against a defender. The first is your forehand technique. The second is how well you read the spin on the ball, and this is by far the most significant factor. No strategy in the world will help you if you don't see the spin.

Henzell, for example, had questionable forehand technique however he was excellent against defenders. He knew the spin every time and it was near impossible to fool him. One of his best friends in Sweden was an excellent defender, so Henzell got invaluable training experience throughout his career.

I have to admit that my coaching level plummets when I'm coaching against a defender. On top of that, Indian players aren't so good against defense. This goes back 40 years. Countries have playing culture, btw. I'll list all the continental cultures one day.

Let's go back to the Gionis match. It was at the end of a very long day and I had coached more than 12 best of 7 matches. It was one of the hardest days I've had and there were a few bad losses I'd like to forget about.

My player was Anthony (world ranking 100 and a good friend) . I was a little later for the match preparation than normal because I was busy with another match. I literally walked up to the bench 30 seconds before the warmup, dropped my bag and asked Anthony "what's the plan?" See, I am a s*** coach after all.

Anthony is a counter attacker and his game is totally the opposite for what is needed to play Gionis. But he had a simple plan and I liked it. He'd topspin the first ball to Gionis' forehand and hit the next ball for a winner. Gionis doesn't chop much from the forehand and he tends to roll more. I probably added "make sure you serve very short to bring him in." I hope I did anyway or else I really stuffed up.

Anthony went up 2-0 in games after hitting his 22 winners against the roll. Then Gionis decided to counter attack instead of rolling and won 4-2. There was no viable plan B, so that was that.

What was the question again?

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 15:05 
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big d wrote:
Went 4 - 4 in Friday league at Lilly yip.

Beat both of the players that were higher than me Amir Khan and Ricardo but kinda lost fuel after that. Lost few matches 2 3.

Was able to get some footage and this time it’s all edited!!

Here is the playlist

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... qJx2N6XezU


Dan, this is a serious question. Are you hoping I tell you how to beat all of those opponents individually, or do you want me to give you advice on how to improve your overall game?

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 15:36 
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Do both... :lol: The rest of us want to read all about it.

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 17:30 
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The biggest mistakes that coaches make is not understanding what is controllable and how long a rally really goes for. For example, if you say that this guy has a bad backhand, so play everything to his backhand, you are probably a 1600 coach. The serve is the most controllable, followed by the return and then a little direction for attacking during a point.


I agree in theory, and at a reasonably high level, in practice, but to take an extreme example: if I'm coaching one of the lower league teams/players (something I do a bit of these days, to the best of my ability), the chances that the player can even execute with a high degree of confidence a serve of a certain type, is questionable. So if I say: serve short, to the fh.... chances are they'll serve half long to the forehand, occasionally short to the middle, and most often long to the forehand. If I say serve fast with topspin into the hip, they'll dolly a float serve to the danger zone. My experience of weaker players is also they have little to no control of their service return - especially against better players. If I say: flick the short serve to the crossover, I would expect them to say "what? how?". If I say touch the short serve short, they'll probably pop it up mid-table. If I say dig it long, they'll probably hit it off the table. It gets an order of magnitude harder against side-spin, which weaker players seem to struggle with most. Best chance at this level for most players is "aim at the middle of the table and hope". However, quite a few points do get past serve and receive, and then the player starts to think about tactics - which is why you hear the 1600 advice (keep it on the backhand! move it wide left and right! etc).

The logical conclusion of this (if the objective is to be able to offer tactics to players) is that weak players should invest 80% of their time in controlling their serve and return. Maybe there's a measure of wisdom in this?

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 18:10 
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big d wrote:
Went 4 - 4 in Friday league at Lilly yip.


I enjoyed watching these matches - what's the level here, of the opponents, in ratings terms?

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 18:40 
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LordCope wrote:
Quote:
The biggest mistakes that coaches make is not understanding what is controllable and how long a rally really goes for. For example, if you say that this guy has a bad backhand, so play everything to his backhand, you are probably a 1600 coach. The serve is the most controllable, followed by the return and then a little direction for attacking during a point.


I agree in theory, and at a reasonably high level, in practice, but to take an extreme example: if I'm coaching one of the lower league teams/players (something I do a bit of these days, to the best of my ability), the chances that the player can even execute with a high degree of confidence a serve of a certain type, is questionable. So if I say: serve short, to the fh.... chances are they'll serve half long to the forehand, occasionally short to the middle, and most often long to the forehand. If I say serve fast with topspin into the hip, they'll dolly a float serve to the danger zone. My experience of weaker players is also they have little to no control of their service return - especially against better players. If I say: flick the short serve to the crossover, I would expect them to say "what? how?". If I say touch the short serve short, they'll probably pop it up mid-table. If I say dig it long, they'll probably hit it off the table. It gets an order of magnitude harder against side-spin, which weaker players seem to struggle with most. Best chance at this level for most players is "aim at the middle of the table and hope". However, quite a few points do get past serve and receive, and then the player starts to think about tactics - which is why you hear the 1600 advice (keep it on the backhand! move it wide left and right! etc).

The logical conclusion of this (if the objective is to be able to offer tactics to players) is that weak players should invest 80% of their time in controlling their serve and return. Maybe there's a measure of wisdom in this?



Yes Lordcope, there is a lot of wisdom in everything you said. I like your post a lot.

In relation to a few of the problems you mention above, I instantly think about equipment. If someone is having those problems in serve and return, maybe their rubber is way too fast. Give them something they can control enough to get to the 3rd and 4th shot more effectively. Just because Sathiyan uses Tenergy, it doesn't mean a 1300 can, despite the marketing of the products. Slow and cheap is better, as a general rule.

If someone can't serve short to the forehand, you generally have 2 things you'll need to do. 1 - teach them how to serve. 2 - ask them to aim short to the forehand in training and then in matches. Of course, this is easier said than done and it takes a little expertise.

If I were to bench coach for a 1300 player that I've never met, I'd try to help them to win the match, especially if my life depended on it or there was 1 million bucks to win/loss. I'd be telling him to serve long tomahawk or whatever it took... I'd be saying, push heavy to the forehand because he can't loop...I'd be saying, serve long to the forehand and block the next ball to the backhand, and then smash the crap out of it. Even lob the ball up to his backhand and let him mess it up.

Then, when we won the match, I'd be happy to still be breathing and I'd invest the million into bars of unallocated silver in a secure vault, backed by Australian govt laws and regulations.

After all business was settled, I'd asked the player if he'd like to learn how to play better. Like "hey mate, would you like to learn forehand topspin?"

I completely enjoy teaching a 1300 how to make a forehand topspin. It's one of my favorite things to do in this world and it's definitely where I'm heading. I desperately want to be a 1300 coach!!! Please join ttEDGE.com and let me coach you! You can send me 30 second clips of your play....everyday if you want!!! It's only $20 a month and I normally respond to all video in under 24 hours. And, best of all, I'm currently working all day and night on some of the most simple videos you've ever seen to help you to understand the basics in 2 mins or less!

I have a slightly different approach with semi-elite players. Let's label them 18-21 year old 2600 level. I make them do the right things in a match, even if they don't have the skills or understanding. After the match, I then tell them that they'll never be much better if they can't do certain things. Within my abilities, I explain the importance of being able to serve/return short to position, make banana flicks and topspin to key areas. I really don't really care about their opponent's names, strength/weaknesses etc...I care about their future.

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 19:06 
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Thanks for your wisdom, Brett. I've found a lot of value in the conversations in this thread and I plan on joining ttEDGE. You may regret it though :lol:

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 19:43 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Do both... :lol: The rest of us want to read all about it.

Iskandar


Hey Isklandar, what's happening in KL? Lockdown or freedom? I haven't been to KL for 18 months, which is a 30 year record for me.

I hear you about the matches, but I leave it up to big d? If so requested, I'll tell the world how to go about beating those pesky NJ 1700-2000 league dudes. But I'm like a genie and he only gets one wish. Once granted, the opportunity is gone forever.
Options include:
A: Tactics to play against 5 NJ league dudes!
B: Improve!

Drum roll, please.....

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 19:50 
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Joo Se Kev wrote:
Thanks for your wisdom, Brett. I've found a lot of value in the conversations in this thread and I plan on joining ttEDGE. You may regret it though :lol:


No, I won't regret it.

Please be aware that my comedy is only for the forum and I just give my best advice in private. I have posted over 2300 times here, so very lame attempted comedy is all I really have left to give.

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 23:05 
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My best coaching advice is always around serve and return. I i recall one match where I realized when my player returned the ball to the same place the serve came from that he win the point every time. The opposition was slow to recover. I doubt 2600s have this flaw.

$20 comedy thread is why I'm here.

Dan has some amazing skills and good anticipation. What's the number one thing he should improve? I feel like he should just warm up with more backspin forehand prior to matches as it seemed that shot improved while watching.


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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 23:18 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
big d wrote:
Went 4 - 4 in Friday league at Lilly yip.

Beat both of the players that were higher than me Amir Khan and Ricardo but kinda lost fuel after that. Lost few matches 2 3.

Was able to get some footage and this time it’s all edited!!

Here is the playlist

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... qJx2N6XezU


Dan, this is a serious question. Are you hoping I tell you how to beat all of those opponents individually, or do you want me to give you advice on how to improve your overall game?



Overall please


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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 23:24 
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LordCope wrote:
big d wrote:
Went 4 - 4 in Friday league at Lilly yip.


I enjoyed watching these matches - what's the level here, of the opponents, in ratings terms?


I’m glad you enjoyed.

Level is Somewhere between 1900 and 2000


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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 23:27 
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wilkinru wrote:
My best coaching advice is always around serve and return. I i recall one match where I realized when my player returned the ball to the same place the serve came from that he win the point every time. The opposition was slow to recover. I doubt 2600s have this flaw.

$20 comedy thread is why I'm here.

Dan has some amazing skills and good anticipation. What's the number one thing he should improve? I feel like he should just warm up with more backspin forehand prior to matches as it seemed that shot improved while watching.


The ttEDGE $20 comedy ad is all true (believe it or not), although it was totally designed to make you laugh. I really do want to coach 1300-2000 players and I already do a lot of it. There is something satisfying about people send me 30 second clips and me giving advice and seeing what happens tomorrow. There really is a different form of video coming for the purpose of simplifying technique. I think I have about 6 already and it's going pretty quickly.

In relation to Dan, I've only watched 2.5 matches so far. I'll watch the rest and talk about it in detail. I'll even give my opinion on the best way to play those guys in the context of proper tt.

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2020, 23:27 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
Do both... :lol: The rest of us want to read all about it.

Iskandar


Hey Isklandar, what's happening in KL? Lockdown or freedom? I haven't been to KL for 18 months, which is a 30 year record for me.

I hear you about the matches, but I leave it up to big d? If so requested, I'll tell the world how to go about beating those pesky NJ 1700-2000 league dudes. But I'm like a genie and he only gets one wish. Once granted, the opportunity is gone forever.
Options include:
A: Tactics to play against 5 NJ league dudes!
B: Improve!

Drum roll, please.....


If you claim to be a Genie I fully expect you to pop out randomly completely out of the blue, sing Aladdin songs. And instead of making me a regular Prince i would prefer to be a table Tennis Prince. :lol:


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